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Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Meadmaker said:
Now, for the rest of us....

I think the hilited part is the key. Many people might think of something like the N-word, or all sorts of sex and gender related things, but we know it's bad, so we make sure we never say it. Moreover, I want to emphasize I am not saying "we know we'll get in trouble" or "we know that it's not politically correct". I mean that there are certain things that truly ought not be said. Really. It's just the wrong thing to say, and most of us make sure we don't, and we don't even have to work very hard at it.
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My upbringing was such that I genuinely don't think of racial epithets... pretty much ever. It's never been something that has run through my mind when angry or upset. But I also know that's specific to my upbringing and childhood.

On the other hand... I go to a fair bit of effort to avoid using other terms, particularly gender-based expletives. I won't use the c-word, or the b-word, or the d-word, for example. Even if they frequently pop into my head, because it's common terminology that I've run into throughout my life.

To your point, if its a term that was used enough around someone, especially as a child, it could feasibly pop out.
 
I simply cannot stress how little effort it's taken me to never use the n-word, like it's not even difficult.
 
Okay, alright, I do have one exception.... But I have to paint you the picture for it to be effective.

Imagine a middle-aged, short white woman, driving along in her very sedate sage green Volvo station wagon, in a business suit, wearing glasses.

Now imagine her singing along to DMX "What do b****** want from a n*****"

That's the only occasion I can think of.
 
Emily's Cat said:
My upbringing was such that I genuinely don't think of racial epithets... pretty much ever. It's never been something that has run through my mind when angry or upset. But I also know that's specific to my upbringing and childhood.

On the other hand... I go to a fair bit of effort to avoid using other terms, particularly gender-based expletives. I won't use the c-word, or the b-word, or the d-word, for example. Even if they frequently pop into my head, because it's common terminology that I've run into throughout my life.

To your point, if its a term that was used enough around someone, especially as a child, it could feasibly pop out.
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My dad was from Missouri. I grew up in small town Illinois. I heard the N word a lot.

My kindergarten teacher, a black woman, once asked my dad if he was a racist. He said, "I grew up in Missouri in the 1930s. Of course I'm a racist." From context, she understood what he meant. She knew he didn't believe in racism, but you can't grow up in that environment without a little bit rubbing off.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Okay, alright, I do have one exception.... But I have to paint you the picture for it to be effective.

Imagine a middle-aged, short white woman, driving along in her very sedate sage green Volvo station wagon, in a business suit, wearing glasses.

Now imagine her singing along to DMX "What do b****** want from a n*****"

That's the only occasion I can think of.
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No, white people, you don't get to sing that word out loud. It's not for you. If you're singing along and you're properly conscious of it, you shouldn't even want to have that word come out of your mouth.

I love good hip-hop and rap music, but when it gets objectionable I don't sing it out loud.

At this point, it's also hard to enjoy a lot of music given the retrograde misogyny. I enjoy 70s easy listening and it isn't much better when it comes to treating women like human beings who have the right to say "no" without being harangued by some jerk with a guitar...but this is an entirely different topic.
 
Bob001 said:
It does if you have just killed the person you're talking about. And what evidence is there that this is his "one use" of the word, as opposed to being typical of his speech and world view?

And back to the beginning, do you claim that the McMichaels would have chased and confronted Arbery if he was white?
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So, I started that post by saying that there was abundant evidence that Travis was a racist, and he was a murderer even if he was not a racist.
 
Babbylonian said:
No, white people, you don't get to sing that word out loud. It's not for you. If you're singing along and you're properly conscious of it, you shouldn't even want to have that word come out of your mouth.

I love good hip-hop and rap music, but when it gets objectionable I don't sing it out loud.

At this point, it's also hard to enjoy a lot of music given the retrograde misogyny. I enjoy 70s easy listening and it isn't much better when it comes to treating women like human beings who have the right to say "no" without being harangued by some jerk with a guitar...but this is an entirely different topic.
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Somewhere between "why can't I call that guy ****** if some black dude somewhere else has said ******" and "don't dare breath the word even singing along in the isolation of your own car because of white guilt" one would hope there'd be a sane mid point ...
 
Joe Random said:
Somewhere between "why can't I call that guy ****** if some black dude somewhere else has said ******" and "don't dare breath the word even singing along in the isolation of your own car because of white guilt" one would hope there'd be a sane mid point ...
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Yeah, there is. Don't use the word. Ever. It's super easy. I don't understand why there needs to be any compromise here. Is it really that hard for white people to keep it in their ******* pants? Why are you so insistent that it simply must be part of the white lexicon? Did every white dummy choose that word as part of their meditation mantra and they simply can't risk losing their focus by picking a new one? How the **** is it 2020 and white folks still can't bear to stop using that word [but totally only when I'm alone in a soundproof room listening to one of my many hip-hop albums]?
 
Meadmaker said:
The N word is a little bit like that. There's this word that we are never supposed to think about when we see a dark skinned individual and, knowing this, we sometimes think about the word when we see a dark skinned individual.
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You're telling on yourself.
 
Meadmaker said:
What's your point?
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While your statement has the appearance of a general insight into an undesirable facet of human nature, it is instead an exposure of some weird tic you have.

Seriously, I have never once in my life looked at a black person and just reflexively thought of the n-word. The very notion is completely bizarre to me.
 
"Oh come on everyone calls them that sometimes in their head! Right? Right? Guys? Right? Oh... oh you don't. Oh.... oh. Ohhhhhh"

It is those dawning moments of realization that I live for.

Don't worry I'm sure we will either be called liars and told we totally do just won't admit it or get a full on blustering 180 swing to "Ah... ah... well it doesn't matter anyway!" territory.
 
If the environment you are immersed in does throw the word around a lot of course it can unconsciously come through once in a while esp when you are angry, in your thoughts if not out loud.

That being said I'm sure the shooter's usage of it reveals his pent up racism.
 
autumn1971 said:
Just pointing out that in a lot of the flat-south “cracker” is not an insult. It denotes people who had land and livestock. They take pride in it; a one-story house with a porch is a “cracker-house.”

Trying to use it as an insult in this case is counterproductive and makes you seem childish.
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I've learned from people here that the word "Cracker" has lots of meanings. I'll pick and choose which meaning applies as I see fit.
 
Babbylonian said:
Yeah, there is. Don't use the word. Ever. It's super easy. I don't understand why there needs to be any compromise here. Is it really that hard for white people to keep it in their ******* pants? Why are you so insistent that it simply must be part of the white lexicon? Did every white dummy choose that word as part of their meditation mantra and they simply can't risk losing their focus by picking a new one? How the **** is it 2020 and white folks still can't bear to stop using that word [but totally only when I'm alone in a soundproof room listening to one of my many hip-hop albums]?
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I'm laughing, in the exact same way that John Trent in my avatar is laughing, at the idea that supposedly grown adults see no difference between "well Ice Cube said ****** in a song, so why can't I greet the receiving clerk at work with 'good morning, ******!'?" and "there's this song I really really like and I love to sing along with it alone in my car, even where it drops the dreaded 'n'-word".

I'll admit it - I've actually uttered the word "Voldemort" at least once in life. Because I don't think that the mere combination of syllables in every single context everywhere has magical powers that will somehow summon an eldritch being of utter horror just because they were given breath.

Most of the uses of ****** are abhorrent, and people trying to excuse using it as an epithet because someone somewhere with the correct skin color used it are utter **** tards. Saying "you can't say it even if it's part of a song you love and you're alone in your car because you're white" is an utterly simplistic PoV that deserves being laughed at. It's a kind of cargo-cult anti-racism : DON'T go through the magical motions so as not to invoke the BadThing.

And FTR, I hate hip-hop/rap so it's not like I'm trying to defend my personal desire to give a full-throated ****** to the world from time to time. And in case it got missed, up-thread I said I thought the defendants in this case clearly flagged their racism when they spewed what they did after shooting the man. Because I can actually deal with things in their context.

Edit to add : under the PoV I'm arguing against above, if I were to phone HR at work and complain that someone kept referring to the receiving clerk as "that lazy ******" I'm just as bad off as if I were to greet that same man every morning with "how is the day going, you ******?". Context actually matters to people who can deal with complex thoughts.
 
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I Am The Scum said:
While your statement has the appearance of a general insight into an undesirable facet of human nature, it is instead an exposure of some weird tic you have.

Seriously, I have never once in my life looked at a black person and just reflexively thought of the n-word. The very notion is completely bizarre to me.
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Who said "reflexively"?
 
The "heat of the moment" and "one-off" arguments are looking shakier:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52927018

"Special Agent Richard Dial of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation told the court that co-defendant William Bryan heard Travis McMichael use the slur after shooting Mr Arbery.

"Mr Bryan said that after the shooting took place before police arrival, while Mr Arbery was on the ground, that he heard Travis McMichael make the statement," Agent Dial said.

Agent Dial said Mr McMichael had used the same slur many times on social media.

Investigators had also found racially derogatory texts on Mr Bryan's phone, he said."

Yep, they were racist.
 
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