Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Thermal]

Or maybe the cautionary tale should be not to chase people around with guns on the suspicion of maybe having committed a crime?

"Why didn't this person act rationally while being chased by gun-wielding men in trucks?"

Possible. You have a better solution that doesn't involve superpowers?

Eta: meant to respond to Dave Rogers post about shooting because of trespassing

 

[Garb]

I take the McMichaels actions as a given crime. So when faced with such criminals, what's the move?

Cooperate with/submit to them? Hellz no.

Stay on the open street where they have every advantage, vehicular and preparatory? Hellz no.

Get off the street and under cover of other properties. Move fast and away from the nuts.

There are potentially other things he could have done (considering he is now dead, he clearly chose a path that led to the worst possible outcome). But I am not going to be an armchair quarterback and say that it is obvious what he should have done.

People under duress do not act rationally in many cases. It isn't fair to blame someone under extreme duress for making a err in judgement and becoming a victim as a result.

There was a case of a young girl being hounded by Billy Eichner for a show called "Billy on the Street." This girl was simply asked to "name a woman", but was unable to actually name one, because she was put on the spot and her confusion/anxiety increased as Billy became more belligerent (which is kind of the point of the show).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCEmPF4-V0

Does this mean the girl is stupid? Or does it mean that people can really struggle to do the rational thing when dealing with stress, whether small or large?

I don't care if he made the wrong move in trying to get away, because he was being put in a ridiculously stressful situation and I can absolutely see that stress leading to him making a mistake. I don't think anyone here without any kind of training could reasonably assert they would react better.

 

[Thermal]

There are potentially other things he could have done (considering he is now dead, he clearly chose a path that led to the worst possible outcome). But I am not going to be an armchair quarterback and say that it is obvious what he should have done.

People under duress do not act rationally in many cases. It isn't fair to blame someone under extreme duress for making a err in judgement and becoming a victim as a result.

There was a case of a young girl being hounded by Billy Eichner for a show called "Billy on the Street." This girl was simply asked to "name a woman", but was unable to actually name one, because she was put on the spot and her confusion/anxiety increased as Billy became more belligerent (which is kind of the point of the show).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCEmPF4-V0

Does this mean the girl is stupid? Or does it mean that people can really struggle to do the rational thing when dealing with stress, whether small or large?

I don't care if he made the wrong move in trying to get away, because he was being put in a ridiculously stressful situation and I can absolutely see that stress leading to him making a mistake. I don't think anyone here without any kind of training could reasonably assert they would react better.

Well...yeah. That's exactly my point. Think about what happened and how you would react. It plants the seed in your mind so we have something to fall back on when in a similar situation (god forbid)

 

[Dave Rogers]

Possible. You have a better solution that doesn't involve superpowers?

I can't think of any solution that doesn't.

Dave

 

[bruto]

Is that what you think they would have said?

It's said they were chasing him down the street with drawn guns because they believed he had been going off the street onto someone else's property. Is it not at least a possibility that going off the street onto someone else's property might not have been the wisest plan to deal with them? This thread is full of speculation on what might have happened or what might have been the case. Everyone seems free to imagine what-ifs and maybes, except, of course, for the person who got shot.

There are many things we can not quite know, and only guess at. One of the few things we need not guess at is that the people who shot Arbery were willing to kill him for some reason or another. It's possible, of course, that he might have behaved differently and avoided this. But if he acted on the assumption that the people chasing him were ready to kill him, his guess was right even if his tactics were not.

 

[Garb]

Well...yeah. That's exactly my point. Think about what happened and how you would react. It plants the seed in your mind so we have something to fall back on when in a similar situation (god forbid)

So you think this discussion can save lives, which is why you wish to dissect how a man in a panic acted like a man in a panic.

I sincerely disagree with that notion. No matter how much you try to say what he could have done better, I cannot guarantee I will make the "right" decisions while running for my life from armed thugs.

 

[Ranb]

Who thinks this will go to trial? As far as I know Georgia still has the death penalty. These guys are on video running down and killing a man. Depending on how aggressively the prosecutor pushes, they might take a plea to avoid the death penalty.

 

[Leftus]

Cut across a lawn and get out of dodge. Please forumites, please...dont try to outrun trucks on the street or take a long run towards some psycho with a shotgun. Get the **** out of there.

So the correct response to being chased for trespassing is more trespassing?

They wouldn't have shot him, if he were to approach someone else's home?

3 steps is not a long run.

 

[Leftus]

Who thinks this will go to trial? As far as I know Georgia still has the death penalty. These guys are on video running down and killing a man. Depending on how aggressively the prosecutor pushes, they might take a plea to avoid the death penalty.

They will likely hold out for a while. If Roddie rolls on them, yeah, plea city. But they are certainly going to hold out to let the rage soften and get a better deal for themselves. While they don't have to, I would hope the GBI would at least run the plea deal past his family, and get their endorsement. I would. You have an almost slam dunk case, and to not get their approval of the deal would be stupid. I wouldn't deal lower than the minimum sentence for Travis (which I just looked up. It's life). I'd consider a couple decades for the other two yahoos.

 

[Thermal]

So the correct response to being chased for trespassing is more trespassing?

Beats the hell out of the alternatives. Plus he was being victimized, not fleeing a crime. That which is necessary to escape armed rednecks is justifiable.

They wouldn't have shot him, if he were to approach someone else's home?

They hadn't shot at him till he was running at them and in arms reach. No reason to think they were snipers.

3 steps is not a long run.

It was more than three to zig zag around the side of the truck, not even getting into the approach, and half a ******* football field before that according to the map/timeline upthread. Where are you getting three steps?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Beats the hell out of the alternatives. Plus he was being victimized, not fleeing a crime. That which is necessary to escape armed rednecks is justifiable.



They hadn't shot at him till he was running at them and in arms reach. No reason to think they were snipers.



It was more than three to zig zag around the side of the truck, not even getting into the approach, and half a ******* football field before that according to the map/timeline upthread. Where are you getting three steps?

It probably you took you longer to type this than Arbery had to consider these options.

 

[Leftus]

Beats the hell out of the alternatives. Plus he was being victimized, not fleeing a crime. That which is necessary to escape armed rednecks is justifiable.

They hadn't shot at him till he was running at them and in arms reach. No reason to think they were snipers.

In the minds of the shooters, they were chasing down a thief. Now you want him to duck into a residential area. I don't think that ends any better. Because now they are protecting their neighbors from a criminal.

It was more than three to zig zag around the side of the truck, not even getting into the approach, and half a ******* football field before that according to the map/timeline upthread. Where are you getting three steps?

I'm talking from the moment he made the move from the front of the truck, it was probably about 3 steps to close that distance. Good odds, for what it's worth.

He was stressed, and was probably on his last ounce of energy. What was like 4 minutes of all out running, I can't imagine where his head was. But there was an opportunity there.

With hindsight, yeah, it was the wrong choice. In the moment? Wasn't so bad given his situation.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

So, the two other top threads in this subforum at the moment are one in which there is video footage of a white woman pretending to the cops that her life is being threatened by a black man, and the other is of a black man on the ground, repeatedly saying that he can't breathe with a cop kneeling on his neck until he is dead.

Given these things can anybody posting in this thread who is of the opinion that Arbrey should have just surrendered to the McMichaels understand why a black man might bsee a group of armed white people as a threat to his life, even if he knew the cops were on their way, even if he were to surrender, and even if he was completely innocent of any wrongdoing?

He should've kept running. He should not have attacked Travis. Being black doesn't give him immunity from the consequences of stupid decisions.

 

[pgwenthold]

In the minds of the shooters, they were chasing down a thief. Now you want him to duck into a residential area.

Shoot, earlier in this thread, they were identifying his "crime" as trespassing. But now the claim is that he should have run through other people's yards.

Seriously, talk about a "no win" situation.

 

[Thermal]

In the minds of the shooters, they were chasing down a thief. Now you want him to duck into a residential area. I don't think that ends any better. Because now they are protecting their neighbors from a criminal.




I'm talking from the moment he made the move from the front of the truck, it was probably about 3 steps to close that distance. Good odds, for what it's worth.

He was stressed, and was probably on his last ounce of energy. What was like 4 minutes of all out running, I can't imagine where his head was. But there was an opportunity there.

With hindsight, yeah, it was the wrong choice. In the moment? Wasn't so bad given his situation.

Agreed, especially if the gun was not in view till he was a few steps from the truck. Pretty late to make a break for the sidelines at that point. As I said upthread, it took cojones of steel to take a run at the guy, and darting around the truck was a fast thinking defensive move. Full points for bravery.

Still, if he did throw up his hands and submit, he could have gone home to his mother and possibly nailed the redneck killer on civil charges that might have scored him a house. But I couldn't endorse surrendering to nutjobs waving guns around. Prison is too good for those punks.

 

[bruto]

Beats the hell out of the alternatives. Plus he was being victimized, not fleeing a crime. That which is necessary to escape armed rednecks is justifiable.



They hadn't shot at him till he was running at them and in arms reach. No reason to think they were snipers.

It was more than three to zig zag around the side of the truck, not even getting into the approach, and half a ******* football field before that according to the map/timeline upthread. Where are you getting three steps?

You may be right, but I have to point out that the highlighted part makes little sense. We cannot know what might have happened other than what did. You can guess that they weren't snipers, or that they would or would not have done this or that, but it''s only a guess. It's trivially obvious that he was not shot while trying an option he did not try.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

There are potentially other things he could have done (considering he is now dead, he clearly chose a path that led to the worst possible outcome). But I am not going to be an armchair quarterback and say that it is obvious what he should have done.

People under duress do not act rationally in many cases. It isn't fair to blame someone under extreme duress for making a err in judgement and becoming a victim as a result.

There was a case of a young girl being hounded by Billy Eichner for a show called "Billy on the Street." This girl was simply asked to "name a woman", but was unable to actually name one, because she was put on the spot and her confusion/anxiety increased as Billy became more belligerent (which is kind of the point of the show).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCEmPF4-V0

Does this mean the girl is stupid? Or does it mean that people can really struggle to do the rational thing when dealing with stress, whether small or large?

I don't care if he made the wrong move in trying to get away, because he was being put in a ridiculously stressful situation and I can absolutely see that stress leading to him making a mistake. I don't think anyone here without any kind of training could reasonably assert they would react better.

I can reasonably assert that I would not try to grab the shotgun.

 

[Thermal]

You may be right, but I have to point out that the highlighted part makes little sense. We cannot know what might have happened other than what did. You can guess that they weren't snipers, or that they would or would not have done this or that, but it''s only a guess. It's trivially obvious that he was not shot while trying an option he did not try.

I hear you, but I would think the evidence suggests the rednecks were not intending to shoot. Greggy didn't even have his gun out till after shots were fired by his son, and the son didn't fire till they were in arms reach and about to engage. Nor was a gun shown (that we know of) during the other attempted stops.

This says to me that the McMichaels were not intending to shoot. If they were, they waited till the most dangerous and ridiculous time to do so.

When Arbery ran off in the earlier chases, they didn't shoot. I think it stands to reason that if he ran through a neighbors yard, they wouldn't have shot either. The only evidence we have of Travis pulling a trigger was when he was being rushed at close range.

 

[arthwollipot]

He should've kept running. He should not have attacked Travis. Being black doesn't give him immunity from the consequences of stupid decisions.

He tried that. They cut him off with trucks. They herded him like sheepdogs rounding up sheep. And then they killed him.

 

[Thermal]

He tried that. They cut him off with trucks. They herded him like sheepdogs rounding up sheep. And then they killed him.

You sure about that? Even a sheep could casually trot around a truck in the road. The McMichaels hadn't had much luck in getting him to even stop.

Actually, if Arbery hadn't seen a gun till that last minute, he could very well have just been screwing with the fat weirdos chasing him around. It would explain why he kept jogging up the road that the McMichaels had stopped on (which otherwise makes no sense to me). By the time he sees Travis' shotgun, he is already too close to bail and throws his Hail Mary play