Jogging in Georgia while black.

[JoeMorgue]

Your second paragraph here is the reason for your first.

There's national attention, and the GBI is involved. The charges are felonies.

I expect the authorities (who are different authorities who let them get away with it - partially because they knew them personally) are going to do their jobs.

Yeah and I get that all of this should make me feel more confident it just... doesn't.

This level of corruption is very rarely this localized. If a DA is this sloppy, whoever was above her was letting her be this sloppy. It's government everyone answers to someone, theortically.

If the local DA (the now recused Jackie Johnson) is the kind of DA where an unarmed person takes two shotgun blasts to the chest in broad daylight and it doesn't even trigger an arrest or investigation I can't imagine her uppers were totally unaware of it. So they were okay with it until national media made them look bad. And the people above them. The stain only washes off a little with each step, we ain't high enough for me to have confidence yet.

Hope yes, confidence no. So yeah I'm not buying that if Georgia is the kind of state that can't even be bothered with one of their citizens being run down on the street and given two shots to the chest and their response is "There's no possible way this is a crime, we don't even have to look into it" then I'm having trouble buying that agencies like the GBI were A) not aware that crap like this was happening) and B) are the best choice to fix it.

 

[Babbylonian]

Yeah and I get that all of this should make me feel more confident it just... doesn't.

This level of corruption is very rarely this localized. If a DA is this sloppy, whoever was above her was letting her be this sloppy. It's government everyone answers to someone, theortically.

If the local DA (the now recused Jackie Johnson) is the kind of DA where an unarmed person takes two shotgun blasts to the chest in broad daylight and it doesn't even trigger an arrest or investigation I can't imagine her uppers were totally unaware of it. So they were okay with it until national media made them look bad. And the people above them. The stain only washes off a little with each step, we ain't high enough for me to have confidence yet.

Hope yes, confidence no. So yeah I'm not buying that if Georgia is the kind of state that can't even be bothered with one of their citizens being run down on the street and given two shots to the chest and their response is "There's no possible way this is a crime, we don't even have to look into it" then I'm having trouble buying that agencies like the GBI were A) not aware that crap like this was happening) and B) are the best choice to fix it.

It should be noted, too, that the murderers were getting enough heat in the community that Poppa Murderer released the video, thinking (likely because he's a racist who truly can't understand why killing a black man would be a big deal) that it demonstrated their innocence. "But he ran straight at my boy!"

 

[JoeMorgue]

And yeah that's sort of my point.

When an ex-cop is soooooo confident in gunning down an unarmed black guy in the street for the vague crime of vaguely maybe doing some at some point maybe and his response to the idea that he might have done something wrong is pure, unapologetic confusion at the very idea, like literally the very idea that he might have done something wrong appears to by all accounts just be blowing this guy's mind, that's not the kind of mentality once tends to cultivate in a vacuum.

Again I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not getting a "Everything's coming up Milhouse" vibe just yet.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

And yeah that's sort of my point.

When an ex-cop is soooooo confident in gunning down an unarmed black guy in the street for the vague crime of vaguely maybe doing some at some point maybe and his response to the idea that he might have done something wrong is pure, unapologetic confusion at the very idea, like literally the very idea that he might have done something wrong appears to by all accounts just be blowing this guy's mind, that's not the kind of mentality once tends to cultivate in a vacuum.

Again I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not getting a "Everything's coming up Milhouse" vibe just yet.

I wonder if you might humor me in doing a little bit of a mental exercise here.

The way you've framed what happened here leads me to wonder whether you're capable of doing this accurately... and yet, oddly also made me think maybe you can.

If you were to try to take your best guess at what Greg McMichael would say about the incident (what happened and why) - what would that look like? If you were to write "as him" ?

 

[dejudge]

According to McMichael their victim made at least one attempt to escape them and avoid a confrontation. They forced a confrontation.

So now that Roddy has been charged ,it implies the attack on Arbery started long before the first shot was fired. Three men attacked Abery he first tried to escape then he was ambushed and shot to death.

 

[Leftus]

I was surprised at the Roddie charge myself. What we have seen so far doesn't seem to me to justify a felony charge. However, the police have seen more. It may very well be that he used his car as a deadly weapon in a threatening manner.

Well, if he was the chase vehicle that pushed Arbury into the trap, the he gets to eat the false imprisonment charge. Since that felony led to a death, he also gets to eat the felony murder charge.

Might be some aggressive charging, all well earned, designed to draw a plea out. But if he has to enjoy his full buffet, well, he earned it.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The story is going to change everytime the story they tell makes them look bad because they didn't shoot him for a reason, they shot him for an excuse. And excuses, by their very nature, don't stay consistent.

He was a well known criminal who was a total stranger in the middle of a crime wave that both and was and wasn't happening who made them fear for their lives by fighting back while running from them after he was both trapped and running away.

 

[Darat]

I wonder if you might humor me in doing a little bit of a mental exercise here.



The way you've framed what happened here leads me to wonder whether you're capable of doing this accurately... and yet, oddly also made me think maybe you can.



If you were to try to take your best guess at what Greg McMichael would say about the incident (what happened and why) - what would that look like? If you were to write "as him" ?

We don't need to guess we have what he did say.

 

[Darat]

So now that Roddy has been charged ,it implies the attack on Arbery started long before the first shot was fired. Three men attacked Abery he first tried to escape then he was ambushed and shot to death.

That was known from the moment the police turned up.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Yeah and I get that all of this should make me feel more confident it just... doesn't.

This level of corruption is very rarely this localized. If a DA is this sloppy, whoever was above her was letting her be this sloppy. It's government everyone answers to someone, theortically.

If the local DA (the now recused Jackie Johnson) is the kind of DA where an unarmed person takes two shotgun blasts to the chest in broad daylight and it doesn't even trigger an arrest or investigation I can't imagine her uppers were totally unaware of it. So they were okay with it until national media made them look bad. And the people above them. The stain only washes off a little with each step, we ain't high enough for me to have confidence yet.

Hope yes, confidence no. So yeah I'm not buying that if Georgia is the kind of state that can't even be bothered with one of their citizens being run down on the street and given two shots to the chest and their response is "There's no possible way this is a crime, we don't even have to look into it" then I'm having trouble buying that agencies like the GBI were A) not aware that crap like this was happening) and B) are the best choice to fix it.

As I say, I don't disagree that the corruption could go that high. I just think that if it is, the international attention might cause them to do this one by the book.

Then again, brazenly getting away with racism and corruption isn't exactly unheard of in the US these days.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you were to try to take your best guess at what Greg McMichael would say about the incident (what happened and why) - what would that look like? If you were to write "as him" ?

I think he'd agree with you, and feel that it wasn't particularly relevant that the letter of the law didn't agree with him.

Dave

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Well, if he was the chase vehicle that pushed Arbury into the trap, the he gets to eat the false imprisonment charge. Since that felony led to a death, he also gets to eat the felony murder charge.

Might be some aggressive charging, all well earned, designed to draw a plea out. But if he has to enjoy his full buffet, well, he earned it.

There's good reason to be broadly critical of felony murder charges, and it's something that criminal reform advocates have long discussed. Often they lead to convictions that seem disproportionate and unjust.

Plenty of people have caught a felony murder charge for far less involvement in a homicide than Roddie. I don't see this charging as particularly aggressive, but rather a consequence of the nature of felony murder laws. Even if felony murder wasn't so broadly defined, there's probably a case to be made that Roddie was still a direct accomplice to the murder of Arbery.

 

[pgwenthold]

The story is going to change everytime the story they tell makes them look bad because they didn't shoot him for a reason, they shot him for an excuse. And excuses, by their very nature, don't stay consistent..

Signed,
Esptein's Mother

 

[Leftus]

Maybe. But we still don't know what the McMichaels already knew about Arbery. If they were at all aware of his penchant for threatening and aggressive behaviour, even with cops, they might have figured that they needed to be armed to intimidate him into acquiescence. And they'd have been right, but even that wasn't enough to stop the dumb bastard attacking them.

From the bodycam footage we've seen he was manifestly an unbalanced thug who'd be triggered in an instant into losing what little capacity he had for self-restraint - what would go through your mind running into someone dressed like him and with his demeanour (particularly in a secluded area), the low pants and boxers/basketball pants sticking out, bare-chested under a parka on a warm spring/summer's day?

Even if all of that is true, how does any of that create their authority to affect a citizens arrest? Even if they knew him down to his inseam or how he takes his coffee, they had zero authority to stop him. Less than that to brandish firearms in the attempt.

Hell, if they knew him that well, they didn't need to stop him, just report him to the authorities. But where is the fun in that.

 

[Leftus]

There's good reason to be broadly critical of felony murder charges, and it's something that criminal reform advocates have long discussed. Often they lead to convictions that seem disproportionate and unjust.

Plenty of people have caught a felony murder charge for far less involvement in a homicide than Roddie. I don't see this charging as particularly aggressive, but rather a consequence of the nature of felony murder laws. Even if felony murder wasn't so broadly defined, there's probably a case to be made that Roddie was still a direct accomplice to the murder of Arbery.

I've got no great love for how the felony murder charge can be misused. But in this case, since he was an active part of the posse, closing the door on the trap, he was an essential part of the unintended murder.

My point is that by swinging for the fences, which is what they all do, they do it so they can drop one or two, get a conviction and a witness.

Even if they convict him on both, he earned them.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The Attempted False Imprisonment charge is interesting. It's going to neuter any claim of self defense for Travis and company. If they were planning on going that route. It also counters the citizens arrest claim. And provides the nexus by which to charge Roddy for murder.

It really shows how the GBI are putting this together. It was an unlawful chase, an attempted false imprisonment, which you are allowed to resist, followed by a murder.

I'd be OK with Roddy rolling on Travis and company, for a deal. I kinda expect it.

Hopeful this is what took them so long.

 

[quadraginta]

It's hard to keep up with all the claims that have been made, and whether they are credible. I do remember seeing a claim that the father had been involved with one of the shoplifting cases, and therefore was familiar with the victim. Then again, credible or not, I have no idea but that claim is out there.

Wait a sec. How many "shoplifting cases" were there?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Leave it up to those Alabamians to not know how to spell mussel.

 

[smartcooky]

Leave it up to those Alabamians to not know how to spell mussel.

Indeed, but that is how they spell it!

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

This level of corruption is very rarely this localized. If a DA is this sloppy, whoever was above her was letting her be this sloppy. It's government everyone answers to someone, theortically.

If the local DA (the now recused Jackie Johnson) is the kind of DA where an unarmed person takes two shotgun blasts to the chest in broad daylight and it doesn't even trigger an arrest or investigation I can't imagine her uppers were totally unaware of it. So they were okay with it until national media made them look bad. And the people above them. The stain only washes off a little with each step, we ain't high enough for me to have confidence yet.

I think you are assuming a level of oversight to a District Attorney that does not exist. A DA is pretty much independent. Especially in states like Georgia where the DA is elected rather than appointed. The DA doesn't really have a boss that they report to. They report to someone the way a mayor or governor or president does...to the people that elect them.

Sort of. The State Attorney General will typically have some oversight, but maybe only in assigning cases. Some states have oversight committees, but they can usually only do a slap on the wrist. Outside of impeachment by the legislature, there may not be much that can be done for an elected DA.

The GBI couldn't really do anything. And they work for the AG. They would work with DAs sometimes in that capacity, but probably not enough to identify some racist tendencies. And there isn't anything they could do but report it to the AG or some committee.

So the acts of a DA aren't really indicative of the higher levels of the State.