Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Skeptic Tank said:
I don't see why the McMichaels forcing a confrontation or trapping him is a problem. That was the entire point of what they were doing? He was a thief and it was appropriate to confront and trap him and to kill him if he attacked.
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This is the Americanest quote I have read for a while.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I'm hearing that the water company had to be called out to the house site Ahmaud had fled from the day he died, to turn off water which was flooding out of pipes.

Indicating he may have been trying to dislodge / steal piping and didn't turn the water off first.

Dunno if true, but in time hopefully we'll get confirmation one way or the other on it.
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And I heard that Jews were killing Christian babies to use their blood in Passover Matzah.

You are hearing something that would be pretty easily confirmed, so if that's what you're hearing, share the link for us.
 
Thermal said:
If you think they were wary of errant hippos, you are likely much mistaken.
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No, I think they were racist arrogant <expletives deleted>. I just don't think that open carry is cause of their racism and arrogance. I doubt very much that open carry being illegal would have much slowed them. At the very best, they'd have been threatening Arbery with baseball bats and/or chainsaws.
 
Robin said:
This is the Americanest quote I have read for a while.
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And I apologise to most Americans for that tongue in cheek remark
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The weak and stupid approach to neighborhood safety that Skeptic Tank advocates really does fulfill every negative foreign prejudice about Americans.

I do realise it is not actually typical.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I can't speak to all states... but my understanding is that open carry allows the carrying of firearms that are holstered or slung, but are not concealed. It does NOT, generally speaking, allow for holding them in a way that indicated preparation for use.

Open carry isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hunters, in particular, probably find it helpful. Also helpful in areas that have a relatively large amount of predatory or dangerous wildlife.

But no matter how you cut it, I'm pretty sure that Travis McMichaels blew right past open carry, and right into brandishing (at the very least).
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I don't believe there are really any laws regulating how you have to hold a long gun for open carry, other than not point the muzzle at someone. Unless slung how would it not be ready to fire? And I can't see anywhere that Georgia requires long guns be kept slung.

As far as hunting goes, I'm unsure how one would go hunting without openly carrying, I say this as someone who went on about oh, 40 or 50, hunting trips before I was even 18. Open carry has pretty much always been allowed in rural areas in the US, in most states. Whats relatively new is that many states have made it illegal for municipalities to ban open carry with "preemption laws".
 
Robin said:
And I apologise to most Americans for that tongue in cheek remark
.
The weak and stupid approach to neighborhood safety that Skeptic Tank advocates really does fulfill every negative foreign prejudice about Americans.

I do realise it is not actually typical.
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I didn't take it as tongue in cheek at all. This is the country that elected Trump.

More typical than we want to admit.
 
smartcooky said:
It was nothing, and he won't concede anything - racists never do.



There was nothing stolen from the building site

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...hooting-construction-site-video-a9509071.html

"The (lawyer's) statement said: "He engaged in no illegal activity and remained for only a brief period. Ahmaud did not take anything from the construction site. He did not cause any damage to the property."

Larry English, the man who owns the house under construction, told The Washington Post that the structure was not burgled, and that the McMichaels' accounts of robberies at the site are "completely wrong."

"I've never had a police report or anything stolen from my property, or any kind of robbery," he said.

"Nothing was ever stolen from the house — which, again, was a construction site," the statement said. "Even if there had been a robbery, however, the English family would not have wanted a vigilante response. They would have entrusted the matter to law enforcement authorities. ... The only crime that the homeowner has seen captured on video is the senseless killing of Mr Arbery."

It is not good news for rednecks Cletus and Bubba that the supposed victim of Arbury's alleged wrongdoing are going in to bat for Arbury.

However, you will never get acknowledgement from any racists when they are wrong.
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Thanks for posting new information. As I understand it the construction site owner is saying he didn't share any video with the McMichaels. There's more to the story that we'll find out soon enough.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Don't make the mistake of conflating "blatant racist" with "conservative". IIRC, at least a few of the people in this thread calling this even atrocious and abhorrent are conservative, but are NOT racists.

I consider myself slightly conservative-leaning... really more of a "libertarian inspired pragmatist" though. I'm pretty broadly liberal on most social issues, and pretty broadly conservative on most fiscal issues. And in the truest sense of the term "conservative", I tend to approach change in a very tentative and slow way.
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Good post. :thumbsup:

Also, conservative sites have been reporting on and urging for the arrest of these ********* for a while now. Hot Air had a piece today worth checking out about how the finger pointing has started regarding how the McMichaels almost weren't charged in Arbery's murder.

Hot Air

And apparently there's a lot more wrong with Glynn County government than this incident.


Hot Air said:
Perhaps Glynn County and DA Johnson’s past sins are finally catching up with them and they’re trying to take everyone down with them. Johnson enjoyed a cozy relationship with the police this past decade, including protecting two cops who shot an unarmed woman to death following a slow-speed chase. One of the officers involved in that chase would later go on to murder his estranged wife causing Johnson and Glynn County police to clash on whether police gave the murderous cop information on his wife. There are also questions on whether the former Glynn County police chief, who attempted to change the department’s culture, was charged with a crime when it’s possible all he did was violate department policy.

Whatever the case, it appears the entire peach is rotten with the disease of corruption. Too bad it took the death of an unarmed, 25-year-old black man out for a jog to bring all this to the national light.
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Emily's Cat said:
If working within the existing system to the best of our ability, and increasing scrutiny on the inequities of the system, aren't acceptable... what is the solution?
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Other systems. I don't trust Glynn County, GA to handle this case, given how the prosecutors and members of the city council have been acting. The state or Federal government should be involved.

Again there's a reason the Federal Government had to step in to stop lynchings.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Feel free to look up FBI crime stats if you like.....
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On this forum, the person making the claim is expected to support it with evidence, not the person questioning it.

If you don't support this claim, then I'll just assume that you don't know what you're talking about, again.
 
I would remind folks that although unfortunately conservative and racist groups sometimes overlap, they are not the same, and although many conservatives are far too forgiving of the racism of their leaders, they need not be and many are not. We must beware of becoming the victims of the false logic that racists themselves so often fall for. The fact that most racists seem to be conservatives is far from the same as saying most conservatives are racists. It's profiling no matter who does it.

One thing at a time.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
I think this has been pretty well established. His family members confirmed his ID in the other video that was taken from across the street outside the house. I don't have a link handy, but it has been often reported.

The video in the house shows a guy wearing the same clothing at the same time.
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A white t-shirt and khaki shorts are not exactly distinctive, but okay.
 
Emily's Cat said:
My opinion is that the McMichaelses were aware that someone had been in the house and were overly vigilant. I have a very strong opinion on exactly *why* they were so overly vigilant(e) about that particular person to the extent that they felt they needed to chase him down in a truck and assault him with a deadly weapon. I am pretty sure you would agree with my conjecture regarding their motivation.
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There is no available evidence to show that the McMichaels knew that the jogger was at the construction site in the afternoon of 23 Feb.20 before he was killed.

There is footage of someone entering and leaving the site but the person was not approached by or followed by anyone and the McMichaels are not seen anywhere in the video.

It is also interesting to note that the Police were already supposed to be on their way to Satilla Drive to investigate the matter after the 1st 911 caller made the report and probably before the jogger was murdered.

I predict it will be found, after investigation, that the McMichaels did not know Arbery was in the unfinished home before he was killed.
 
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dejudge said:
There is no available evidence to show that the McMichaels knew that the jogger was at the construction site in the afternoon of 23 Feb.20 before he was killed.

There is footage of someone entering and leaving the site but the person was not approached by or followed by anyone and the McMichaels are not seen anywhere in the video.

It is also interesting to note that the Police were already supposed to be on their way to Satilla Drive to investigate the matter after the 1st 911 caller made the report and probably before the jogger was murdered.

I predict it will be found that the McMichaels did not know Arbery was in the unfinished home before he was killed.
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If you watch the long video taken from across the street, the McMichaels pickup is seen going down the street just after Arbery sprints out. That's a tough case for coincidence. Do you think they planned to ambush a random black person, and coincidentally had a story about someone on their neighbors property caight on surveillance, which just happened to be the same guy?
 
dejudge said:
There is no evidence that Arbery had already made a failed attempt to evade these people.
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Except, as has been pointed out, the very statements made by the killers.

It is extremely important to observe the available videos.

No-one was following the jogger immediately before and after he left the construction site. No-one approached him before and after he exited the building.

There is no footage of the McMichaels near the construction site before or after Arbery entered and left the building.
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They did, however accost him at least once before the final encounter, and he was pursued into the roadblock by the guy who took the video of the killing. A confederate (no pun intended) of theirs.

In the totality of the circumstances, a jury will understand the intentions of the armed roadblock quite well. A reasonable person in Mr. Arbery's situation would be intimidated by this display of firearms, and clearly this is the intention of the men trying to force him to stop.


https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-2/16-5-20/
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So you agree that the killers, while under arms, confronted Arbery with the express intent of intimidating him.

Why do you think they had a legal right to do that? Because they thought he might have been a trespasser? Yeah, no. That is insufficient cause to assault someone, and any rational person will understand that confronting someone while armed, with the express intent of intimidating them, is assault. Pure and simple.

Armed assault. A felony. And they killed him while engaged in this felony.

Felony murder.

I really don't understand what is so complicated about this. The sequence of events is described by the killers' own testimony. The facts of the event are irrefutable. Everything else is people trying to justify their own prejudices against a minority.

Unfortunately for Arbery, he didn't intimidate all that well. This is why bullies should not be allowed to wander around with firearms.

If they had been unarmed the three of them probably would have run away in panic from the big, scary, black dude.

And then told all their buddies how threatened they had been.
 
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