Jogging in Georgia while black.

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SuburbanTurkey said:
I think the fact that the roadblock wasn't their first run-in with Arbery is very damning.

By their own statements, the vigilantes state that Arbery was evading them. Before the filmed final encounter, there was another attempt to force a confrontation that ended in Arbery evading on foot. At this point, there is really no room for a "big misunderstanding" argument. This person was fleeing from them, and they gave chase.

Obviously Arbery was not voluntarily going to agree to their "talk". For them to set up their armed roadblock was an obvious escalation. Any half-competent prosecutor will take the jury through this step-by-step, not just focusing on the video taped part exclusively.
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Largely agreed, except for armed roadblock. More like stopping your truck in the street, that a guy can easily walk around, by legally armed citizens. The implication is that they intended to use the arms aggressively against Arbery. The defense will likely say they (perfectly legally) arm themselves anytime they go out. That's the murky area
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Again let's take a black guy and just have him hold a shotgun but not "brandish" it on the corner of your typical suburban neighborhood and see what happens and who's defending it and who's not.
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Armed Black Panthers outside the construction site have already been cited as a threat that helped the owner change his story to exculpate Arbrey..
 
Thermal said:
Largely agreed, except for armed roadblock. More like stopping your truck in the street, that a guy can easily walk around, by legally armed citizens. The implication is that they intended to use the arms aggressively against Arbery. The defense will likely say they (perfectly legally) arm themselves anytime they go out. That's the murky area
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yeah, but by their own words, they armed themselves for the purpose of giving chase.

They really put all their chips on the Citizen's Arrest defense. If that fails, I think there is too much evidence, much their own statements, for them to find an alternative legal explanation.
 
(somewhat OT as is my wont) as ever, it behooves people to check out the historical gun crime/murder stats by state and their associated gun/carry laws. There is practically no correlation between them and crimes/murders committed with guns. Some gun-freaks have theorised that this is because well over 80% of the guns used in committing crime/murder are illegally owned by the perpetrators (seriously!).

I assume that gun-control advocates believe that laws could be passed that might eventually, somehow, result in the destruction of a sizable proportion of guns currently in existence, i.e they could be made to just 'go away'. The problem is that most guns are not only extremely simple and durable, they also tend to be used infrequently enough that they can still be perfectly serviceable after decades, even a century or more. A handgun kept in a dry loft since 1911 might need nothing more than a few drops of oil (if that) to be perfectly usable.

To me it seems like the genie/bottle conundrum, and the only way I can see of at least mitigating against mass school shootings (which are of course the most tragic of them) is to always have armed staff or security present - a disincentive, and if the worst comes to the worst, at least the the psychotic shooter wouldn't be able to stroll around picking victims off at will.

ETA >> intended as a reply to a post ^^^^ by Thermal on the issue of open-carry, and its being "the problem".
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
You're engaged in enormous context denial.

Black people and white people aren't just interchangeable "citizenry units" colored differently. In our society, they have wildly different behavioral profiles / crime rates / lifestyles, etc.

Even if a computer that was programmed to be incapable of taking race into account or even knowing race existed - was determining the outcome of all school discipline, all criminal cases, etc. - you would still see these same disparities because the FACTS of these cases are different not just on average, but OVERWHELMINGLY so.

So whites very frequently have a legitimate basis to shoot a black person who is criminally attacking them, whereas the reverse almost doesn't happen ever.

White people preying on black people as targets for burglary, rape, murder, mugging - etc. is almost not a thing at all. The reverse is a massive phenomenon.
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I get it. This is all considered acceptable in some minds, as Black people aren't really people deserving or rights, and freedoms, and respect.

In this mind view, Blacks are not truly human.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
So whites very frequently have a legitimate basis to shoot a black person who is criminally attacking them, whereas the reverse almost doesn't happen ever.

White people preying on black people as targets for burglary, rape, murder, mugging - etc. is almost not a thing at all. The reverse is a massive phenomenon.
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And you're going to back this up with what evidence?
 
Shalamar said:
I get it. This is all considered acceptable in some minds, as Black people aren't really people deserving or rights, and freedoms, and respect.
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As you wrote that reaction to what I said, were you keeping in mind that what I said was 100% uncontroversial, statistically verifiable fact? Because that's an important backdrop here.

Shalamar said:
In this mind view, Blacks are not truly human.
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That's silly. That would be like saying pit bulls are not truly dogs. Of course they are dogs. They are dogs which differ genetically from other breeds, such as golden retrievers, in ways which make them astronomically more dangerous and prone to spur of the moment, impulsive aggression that leaves toddlers, the elderly, cats, other dogs, and farm animals dead by the tens of thousands every year. Still dogs, though.
 
Ranb said:
And you're going to back this up with what evidence?
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Feel free to look up FBI crime stats if you like. Are you honestly telling me that you think, that you are under the impression, that in the United States of America - white men are raping black women in any sort of appreciable numbers? That white men are walking up to nice, wholesome black couples and mugging them at gunpoint? That white people are breaking into the homes of black families and preying on them? That white men are raping elderly black women in their 80s and 90s at incredibly high rates? That white men are running up and engaging in vicious, random assaults / punches on black people standing around minding their own business?

I'm not saying none of these happen at all, ever - but it's impressively close to that being the case.

Are you honestly not aware that this is true?
 
IsThisTheLife said:
(somewhat OT as is my wont) as ever, it behooves people to check out the historical gun crime/murder stats by state and their associated gun/carry laws. There is practically no correlation between them and crimes/murders committed with guns. Some gun-freaks have theorised that this is because well over 80% of the guns used in committing crime/murder are illegally owned by the perpetrators (seriously!).

I assume that gun-control advocates believe that laws could be passed that might eventually, somehow, result in the destruction of a sizable proportion of guns currently in existence, i.e they could be made to just 'go away'. The problem is that most guns are not only extremely simple and durable, they also tend to be used infrequently enough that they can still be perfectly serviceable after decades, even a century or more. A handgun kept in a dry loft since 1911 might need nothing more than a few drops of oil (if that) to be perfectly usable.

To me it seems like the genie/bottle conundrum, and the only way I can see of at least mitigating against mass school shootings (which are of course the most tragic of them) is to always have armed staff or security present - a disincentive, and if the worst comes to the worst, at least the the psychotic shooter wouldn't be able to stroll around picking victims off at will.

ETA >> intended as a reply to a post ^^^^ by Thermal on the issue of open-carry, and its being "the problem".
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I live in New Jersey. No open or concealed carry. We have lower than average gun violence, despite being in the most densely populated State, and bordering NY and Philly, as well as our own sewer-ish Northern cities. No carry works, and it's not even the Wild West here.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
As you wrote that reaction to what I said, were you keeping in mind that what I said was 100% uncontroversial, statistically verifiable fact? Because that's an important backdrop here.



That's silly. That would be like saying pit bulls are not truly dogs. Of course they are dogs. They are dogs which differ genetically from other breeds, such as golden retrievers, in ways which make them astronomically more dangerous and prone to spur of the moment, impulsive aggression that leaves toddlers, the elderly, cats, other dogs, and farm animals dead by the tens of thousands every year. Still dogs, though.
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Its adorable that you seem to think that it makes it right for black human beings to be murdered because of an incorrect world view.
 
carlitos said:
What does it mean?
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Shorthand for people who argue against themselves without realizing it.

The website reddit has smaller subforum that begin with 'r/'. r/SelfAwareWolves is one dedicated to people who don't realize what they are saying, and reveals their hypocrisy. As in 'they were so close to becoming self aware'
 
Thermal said:
I live in New Jersey. No open or concealed carry. We have lower than average gun violence, despite being in the most densely populated State, and bordering NY and Philly, as well as our own sewer-ish Northern cities. No carry works, and it's not even the Wild West here.
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That there is "lower than average" gun violence in New Jersey doesn't change the trends clearly seen overall, and I would put it to you that it can't even be taken as given that 'no carry' is responsible for it. Doesn't Detroit have even tighter no carry laws?

There are doubtlessly states/cities with NC, CC or OC that have higher or lower than average gun crime, but again, the overall trend id that .... there is no trend.
 
Meadmaker said:
In the insane world of American law, merely having a loaded shotgun with you isn't considered a threat. In some jurisdictions, displaying that weapon isn't considered a threat. However, in every jurisdiction, if you actually point it at someone, it's a threat. Therefore, whether or not it was pointed at him may very well be the key factor in deciding it was a threat.
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Nope. They have clearly stated their were trying to curtail his movements in a public place, that is a crime whether they were armed with a lethal weapon or not. The fact they were undertaking a criminal act whilst armed with lethal weapons is what makes them “1st degree” murderers.
 
Thermal said:
Shorthand for people who argue against themselves without realizing it.

The website reddit has smaller subforum that begin with 'r/'. r/SelfAwareWolves is one dedicated to people who don't realize what they are saying, and reveals their hypocrisy. As in 'they were so close to becoming self aware'
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The self-awareness and absence of hypocrisy here at ISF is exemplary.
 
Bogative said:
The most enjoyable part of being a member of ISF is watching the "OMG-America-is-so-racist" social justice mob fall for stories like this without being the least bit skeptical before they work themselves into a frenzy and step directly on the rake laid out in front of them and get whacked right in the face.

Never gets old.
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:rolleyes:
Still in denial?
 
Thermal said:
I live in New Jersey. No open or concealed carry. We have lower than average gun violence, despite being in the most densely populated State, and bordering NY and Philly, as well as our own sewer-ish Northern cities. No carry works, and it's not even the Wild West here.
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BTW, I thought it was widely accepted that it was policing in both NJ and NY that is responsible for their low crime figures (ETA >> presumably including gun crime), or rather the drop seen since the 1990's - distinctly more 'pro-active' than 'reactive' and higher than average visible police presence.
 
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