Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Meadmaker]

K,

But you can't eliminate the context of the situation here.

These guys say they recognized him from previous incidents where things were stolen,

Indeed, context is extremely important.

That is indeed what these guys say. It will be interesting to see whether any of these alleged previous videos ever surface, and if so whether Arbery is on them.

My own suspicion is that he is not on those videos at all, but some other black man is on the videos, and so their "recognition" of Arbery is actually an indication that they leapt to a conclusion based on nothing but the color of the man's skin. That would be some important context.

Also, would the video actually be of "incidents where things were stolen", or would it be of "incidents where a black man was walking in the street". That would be important context.

We'll just have to wait and see what more information comes out, to provide whatever context that it can.

If it was all a misunderstanding, this could have been cleared up with conversation or he could have just kept running past them.

We're still waiting for confirmation from those internet sleuths, but it appears to me that at least one of them was pointing a gun at him. "Just kept running past them" would not seem like a good option in that case.

I understand that the pointing of one or more weapons has not been definitively confirmed, but it's curious that after acknowledging it as a possibility, you consistently ignore that possibility in later conversation.

 

[Bob001]

It's pointless really. Wait for the court. Making quit judgements based on few leaks is hardly justice. And it can actually hinder with justice.
....

The reason there's some suspicion of the legal process is that these guys weren't even charged for over two months after they killed an unarmed man in the street. Their pals in the police dept. and prosecutor's office gave them a free pass. When the state police looked at it, it took them about a day to file murder charges. And it will be a long, bumpy road to get a convictions.

 

[Meadmaker]

Something's out of whack here. There's a video of him looking around the construction, and a claim that he was looking around it again. Is there video of that as well? Are there two videos of him looking at the construction site?

Did either of them show him stealing anything?

There is a video taken from a surveillance camera inside the building under construction. The clip from that video is only about 10 seconds long, but it obviously continues, so the rest apparently hasn't been made public yet.

There is another clip taken of the same incident from across the street, showing Arbery entering and leaving the under construction house. On that clip, there is another man across the street. He is watching the site and it is possible he is talking on a cell phone. I am wondering if that person is "Roddy", making the 911 call. That is unconfirmed at the moment.


It is alleged that previous video exists of something else, but the details of those alleged videos are not known, except "Roddy's" claim during the 911 call that the person on the videos was Arbery.

 

[Meadmaker]

What I've gleaned from various reports is that there were 3 shots in total. One before the struggle and two during. At least 2 from the handgun wielded by the son. I'm not sure that any are said to have come from the shotgun.

The son was carrying the shotgun. The father, in the bed of the truck, had a handgun.

I don't know whether all three shots came from the shotgun, or if the handgun was also fired. I have heard it said that all three shots came from the shotgun, and all three shots sounded the same to me, but I haven't seen a police report or other evidence to confirm that.

 

[Dr.Sid]

The reason there's some suspicion of the legal process is that these guys weren't even charged for over two months after they killed an unarmed man in the street. Their pals in the police dept. and prosecutor's office gave them a free pass. When the state police looked at it, it took them about a day to file murder charges. And it will be a long, bumpy road to get a convictions.

That's the issue indeed. To have regular process. But that's how much of this thread ? 10% ?

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's pointless really. Wait for the court. Making quit judgements based on few leaks is hardly justice. And it can actually hinder with justice.

So your brilliant strategy is to let the system that didn't even charge anyone despite it happening in broad daylight and being caught on film for two months handle it?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

There is a video taken from a surveillance camera inside the building under construction. The clip from that video is only about 10 seconds long, but it obviously continues, so the rest apparently hasn't been made public yet.

I didn't realize this video exists.

There is another clip taken of the same incident from across the street, showing Arbery entering and leaving the under construction house. On that clip, there is another man across the street. He is watching the site and it is possible he is talking on a cell phone. I am wondering if that person is "Roddy", making the 911 call. That is unconfirmed at the moment.

Whoever that guy is, he should be easy to find and inteview.

What I found interesting about this video is that Arbery walks into the house, but runs out. Indicating that he may have been spooked. He could have been scared whether or not he was there intending to look for something to steal.

It is alleged that previous video exists of something else, but the details of those alleged videos are not known, except "Roddy's" claim during the 911 call that the person on the videos was Arbery.

I'm skeptical that these other videos show Arbery (or anyone else) doing anything significant. If they did, why were they not already given to the police? At first I was skeptical that the other videos even exist, as there is motivation to fabricate that they do, but if "Roddy" also mentioned them, perhaps they do.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Everything appears to be lies. He did not commit a crime nor was in the process of committing a crime based on the released videos. The police may all be involved in a cover-up of the murder of the jogger.

If the McMichaels were not already inside the constructing site they would have no idea what he was doing when he entered the property.

They must have been lying when they claimed he was committing a crime after he entered the site.

The whole "Construction site" thing is just yet another red herring that only came up after the fact.

 

[Dr.Sid]

So your brilliant strategy is to let the system that didn't even charge anyone despite it happening in broad daylight and being caught on film for two months handle it?

Not really, what makes you think so ?

 

[Bob001]

.....
What I found interesting about this video is that Arbery walks into the house, but runs out. Indicating that he may have been spooked. He could have been scared whether or not he was there intending to look for something to steal.
.....

Or he was just resuming his run. I don't think there's a rule that says you have to walk slowly to the street, pause, stretch and touch your toes seven times before you can start jogging.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

From the first time I saw the video, without any information yet about burglary or anything like that, I knew that what had caused him to be shot and killed was the assault he launched on the younger McMichael which was right there in the video.

I'm sure you did. The fact that you dismiss the idea that what caused him to get shot was being run down by men with guns who forced a confrontation is telling.

I have been puzzled at people saying how damning the video is and how it should have led to charges months ago. The DA's decision and letter made perfect sense to me, and accorded with what I thought upon viewing #1 of the video.

Yes, but you're self-admittedly prejudiced, so all you're saying here really is that the DA is likely also prejudiced.

The handgun was held by the father who was in the bed of the pickup, all shots came from the shotgun wielded by the son who was on foot and had been driving the truck - at least that's my understanding.

At least one report says he was shot in the hand. I'm not sure how much of a hand he'd have left if it had been shot with a shotgun at that range.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Or he was just resuming his run. I don't think there's a rule that says you have to walk slowly to the street, pause, stretch and touch your toes seven times before you can start jogging.

Georgia State Code AS:23:12 - "Any runner who doesn't properly stretch their hamstrings may be summarily executed by any citizen."

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Or he was just resuming his run. I don't think there's a rule that says you have to walk slowly to the street, pause, stretch and touch your toes seven times before you can start jogging.

Also possible, but seems less likely to me.

 

[Thermal]

At the extreme close range of the last shot, the shot shell wad is just starting to open and the pellets of any size are still in a tiny group. There was a stain on Arbery's shirt side/back as he fell. I think buckshot or bird shot was used and it completely penetrated the side of his abdomen.

Any high brass at that range would have had some, shall we say, stopping power, no? As in a rather large exit wound? Instead, we see Arbery start bleeding through his shirt and still walking. I'm thinking very low brass, a la what VP Cheney shot his lawyer in the face with, or a handloaded rocksalt. Also, is it possible the shotgun was something smaller, like a .410 snake gun? Sounded too loud but not sure.

 

[carlitos]

........]



This is the video of him entering the construction site - at 13' 30" on the video, which appears to be running about four times normal speed.

The new surveillance video confirmed that Arbery's slaying "was not justified, and the actions of the men who pursued him and ambushed him were," the lawyers said in the statement. "We reiterate, Ahmaud Arbery did not take part in ANY felony, had no illegal substances in his system, was not armed yet was shot three times with a shotgun at close range."

Apologies for the Apple news link, I am on my phone. Article is from USA today.

https://apple.news/AGtFSkzlwQRKqEscXnN9Q8Q

 

[bluesjnr]

Can I just check peoples thinking here? From whatever side of the racist argument you stand, could you confirm whether you are of the opinion that Arbery was going to be shot even if he hadn't have made an attempt to wrest the shot gun from McMichael?

I ask because that seems to be a bit of a creeping narrative?

 

[bluesjnr]

At least one report says he was shot in the hand. I'm not sure how much of a hand he'd have left if it had been shot with a shotgun at that range.

If I have the tip on my pinkie over the barrel of a shotgun as it's fired then I'm losing the tip of my pinkie. If I have two fingers over the barrel of a shotgun just above the knuckle, I'm losing those fingers. If I have my whole palm over the barrel, then it's likely the whole hand would be shredded.

It all depends just what part of his hand was where and how close when the shot was fired.

Squeegee Beckenheim, you are usually very much on point but your earlier comments regarding the timing of the shots, type of weapon used and now this are not helping.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Can I just check peoples thinking here? From whatever side of the racist argument you stand, could you confirm whether you are of the opinion that Arbery was going to be shot even if he hadn't have made an attempt to wrest the shot gun from McMichael?

I ask because that seems to be a bit of a creeping narrative?

I really doubt it. I believe they were going to hold him until the police came.

 

[carlitos]

If I were a black guy in the south with Three white guys holding me at gunpoint until the police came, I might just take my chances and rush them too.

 

[Thermal]

Can I just check peoples thinking here? From whatever side of the racist argument you stand, could you confirm whether you are of the opinion that Arbery was going to be shot even if he hadn't have made an attempt to wrest the shot gun from McMichael?

I ask because that seems to be a bit of a creeping narrative?

I see no reason to think they planned to murder. I think it's just as likely they were just going to show the 'intruder' who was boss, waving guns around. Which, in my State, is already serious jail time. Not being familiar with Georgia open carry laws, I don't know how legal it was to carry a loaded shotgun on a street, or blocking off the street with the truck. Seems like that should be enough to indicate criminal malice and intent, but Georgia is one of only four US States without hate crime laws. They see things a little...differently...down South.

One way or the other, the McMichaels and company are in the ethical wrong, and by a lot. I'm just wondering what particular kind of wrong. Murder, as I opined earlier, is the right charge in my State but possibly the wrong one in a liberally open carry State.