Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You want to hear me say it's because he's black? I mean, I would say that statistics about young black men and the fact that 1 in 3 black men will do time in prison do sort of make his race a non-irrelevant factor here, sure.

There it is.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Okay, we just got trained differently. I'd rather return a pistol to the holster than shoot in this kind of situation. I've watched a person disarm another man with a stolen rifle, he brandished, but held his fire. I'm super glad he did.

If my pistol is out and I didn't shoot, that means I pulled the pistol too early, not a sign that I decided to show mercy or something so it's not a question of "being glad I didn't shoot."

Pulling the pistol and firing are the same act in my head. That was damn near beaten into me.

 

[JoeMorgue]

But they don't care about that, because they are racists themselves.

You can't shame a racist by saying that their argument is racist.

Well it's a thread about a black guy being gunned down in broad daylight and nobody held accountable.

Either we talk to the racist or there's no point in the thread even existing.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't see how there can be any doubt that they are buckling to public pressure, given the last few days' timeline, etc.

The video evidence seems to show an open and shut case of murder. So if you are this confident that it was only public pressure which caused them to bring charges, do you think their failure to act before is due to incompetence, corruption or prejudice?

 

[uke2se]

Well it's a thread about a black guy being gunned down in broad daylight and nobody held accountable.

Either we talk to the racist or there's no point in the thread even existing.

Talk about the racist, and the obvious racism of this crime, and the systematic racism that allowed these ******* to initially avoid prosecution and the growth of racism under the current administration in the US.

Do not entertain the troll-posts of a self-confessed racist who's obviously having a blast coming up with ludicrous ways to blame the victim.

 

[Thermal]

Well it's a thread about a black guy being gunned down in broad daylight and nobody held accountable.

Either we talk to the racist or there's no point in the thread even existing.

Really? How about the wisdom of open carry laws? Vigilantism? Corrupt officials in the good old boys network and how to stop them? The power of social media to bring about accountability? Nothing but race you see here. Ok.

 

[JoeMorgue]

*Shrugs* I can talk at him as easily as to him, makes no nevermind to me.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

The video evidence seems to show an open and shut case of murder. So if you are this confident that it was only public pressure which caused them to bring charges, do you think their failure to act before is due to incompetence, corruption or prejudice?

I disagree entirely about what the video shows. I think it clearly shows he attacked them and was shot as a direct result.

The DA's decision makes total sense to me.

Talk about the racist, and the obvious racism of this crime, and the systematic racism that allowed these ******* to initially avoid prosecution and the growth of racism under the current administration in the US.

Do not entertain the troll-posts of a self-confessed racist who's obviously having a blast coming up with ludicrous ways to blame the victim.

How about you just let the other adults here make their own decisions about what they would like to respond to or not respond to and you can do the same?

I think there's a rule about targeting arguments rather than posters, no?

Besides, you're devoting almost all of your post content / keystrokes to responding to me, just in a little more roundabout way.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Does anyone happen to know if Skeptic Tank is correct on this point? I certainly didn't see a tool, possibly a hammer, and I'm not inclined to try frame by frame analysis to try and figure it out. Is he right? Or is it about as clear as the smoke rising from the rear of the grassy knoll?

There are at least two 'items' in the road, could be almost any normal road crap, sticks, burst tyre debris, they don't look like tools though. They're wrongly positioned to have been dropped and throwing them to where they lay would have been really obvious and is not in evidence.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

So don't like it; I don't care.

I'll be honest, I was going to take it to the next stage of ick, but JoeMorgue is right. In this case, take the high ground, there's plenty of room. For most of us anyway.

 

[Meadmaker]

There are at least two 'items' in the road, could be almost any normal road crap, sticks, burst tyre debris, they don't look like tools though. They're wrongly positioned to have been dropped and throwing them to where they lay would have been really obvious and is not in evidence.

I think the earlier call was correct. The thing that Skeptic Tank identified as a hammer does seem like it could very well be a dead squirrel.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's a country road. I'm surprised it's not a bunch of tires, a stained mattress, a busted CRT TV, and a shopping cart from a store nowhere near by.

 

[lobosrul5]

If my pistol is out and I didn't shoot, that means I pulled the pistol too early, not a sign that I decided to show mercy or something so it's not a question of "being glad I didn't shoot."

Pulling the pistol and firing are the same act in my head. That was damn near beaten into me.

I have actually had an Air Force MP, 2 in fact, point an M-16, or perhaps M-4 (kinda hard to see the barrel length from that angle). But thankfully, neither shot. My friend literally drove into an AFB by accident when I was in high school with me in the passenger seat. He was kind of a "space cadet".

 

[Leftus]

Help me understand.

If it's legal in Georgia to open carry firearms, and it's legal in Georgia to approach another citizen, and it's legal in Georgia even to perform citizens' arrests... then how can any combination of these actions constitute legal basis for you "defending yourself" by launching a physical assault against someone doing any combination of those things?

Except the fact they weren't performing a citizens arrest since that requires the arrestor to be a witness to the crime that is happening right then and there. Since the elder was a retired cop, I'm going with he knew this. So what you have here was not citizens arrest, but a kidnapping attempt gone wrong for the victim.

 

[Craig4]

Okay so you wouldn't stop and calmly reason with them. What would you do?

You would charge them and start swinging?

If they were trying to detain him unlawfully, yes. He's a black man confronted by the white, swamp people of Georgia. This is a class of person known to have stupid, idiotic, outmoded ideas about race who have murder Black Americans. The victim had no reason to believe that their kind weren't planning to harm him. Let's face it, Georgia crackers have a long history of murdering Black Americans. Living there, I'm sure who knew what class of person he was dealing with.

Can you point to anywhere that the victim was lawfully obligated to follow the instructions of either of the crackers?

 

[Craig4]

I'll be honest, I was going to take it to the next stage of ick, but JoeMorgue is right. In this case, take the high ground, there's plenty of room. For most of us anyway.

If there is anything I've learned since 2016 it's this: Dehumanization is a powerful weapon. People will do things to a hated other they won't do to a fellow citizen and equal. I accept that we are in a cold civil war and the less Americans see the enemy as fully human, the better for the country. If you're in a war, win.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Can you point to anywhere that the victim was lawfully obligated to follow the instructions of either of the crackers?

He'll just refer back to the "Citizens Arrest Law" that doesn't even apply in this situation and his mind will go no further.

 

[Meadmaker]

Saw some stupid on youtube related to this. I knew it would be out there. This kind of story gets lots of attention. This is the first day that something other than the coronavirus was the large print center story over at the Drudge Report.

My favorite one said that "the guy" matched a composite sketch related to a string of burglaries. Oh, and they found drugs and stolen property at the convicted thief's house. That one could conceivably be true, since he had a shoplifting arrest, apparently. Usually shoplifters are caught red-handed, though, but it is not impossible.

The word "prejudice" is one of those words that has lost a lot of meaning. It is now one of those words which means little more than "a bad thing that racists do", but it actually comes from "pre-judge", and it's about automatic assumption of guilt. I think Skeptic Tank and a lot of people, including the DA who declined to prosecute, are guilty of that when they assume that Arbery was in fact a burglar. I doubt the DA bothered to even investigate. Black guy accused of being a thief? Probably guilty. That's prejudice.

To be fair, the McMichael clan is being pre-judged as well, accused of racist and what have you, so we probably ought not do that. On the other hand, their status as criminals isn't really being prejudged. It's pretty much visible on the video. It's true that they need to be given the opportunity to present their side of the story in court, just in case there is something that isn't obvious on the video, but I don't think those of us who have actually watched the video and examined its contents, while being aware of the applicable law, could be accused of prejudice as long as we don't go beyond the video contents.

 

[Darat]

Because having open carry does not mean you can threaten with a gun and the "criminal" has actually not committed a criminal act. Pointing the gun is a threat, so he would be within his legal rights to defend himself. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Remember the rule I mentioned earlier, “white = right” it is really that simple for some people.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

To be equally nit picky whether the prosecution decides to initially bring a charge against the killer or not, there will still be a court case in England and Wales. As an unnatural death there will be a case in the coroner's court (if there is a criminal case this functions as the coroner's court). The family will be able to present evidence and question those involved if they give evidence. The jury can return a verdict of unlawful killing. In many cases even when a prosecution had not been initially sought a verdict of unlawful killing from the coroner's court will cause the prosecuting authorities to review the decision. In any case there will have been an opportunity to review the facts of the case in a court of law open to the public.

I've no argument with this, and it doesn't really contradict what I said, clear cases of self defense don't always go to trial, but you're right there are levels of review. As indeed there bloody well should be when a life has been taken.

Thank you though for an interesting and clear synopsis of the process and the connection between criminal and coroner's courts, it's something I hadn't really thought about and it has clarified my understanding. There is always transparency in the process, that is undoubtedly a good thing.