Joe the Liar

[mr rosewater]

Maybe it's a reflection of the type of people I know, but most of those that work side jobs, under the table things, are not making a quarter million a year. Those that are making that, aren't the kind of folks who would work a side job to make a few bucks more. If they are, they, working in concert with their accountant have been doing that all along.

I continue to believe that taxes will be increased across all levels of income no matter what these two candidates say, except the poorest of course, now I don't want to call them liars that would be rude.

 

[mhaze]

Actually, a Journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship.

Well....Duhhh!!!

That's why a Journeyman is not called an "Apprentice", and while we are at it, the term for the licensed plumber is "Master Plumber".

I continue to believe that taxes will be increased across all levels of income no matter what these two candidates say, except the poorest of course, now I don't want to call them liars that would be rude.

For 2006, the top 1% made >$336k or so. For Obama's $1T in new spending, that'd be an average on that 1% of some $700-800k per year - obviously impossible.

There is a big disconnect between Obama's promises and any realistic ability to gather money from higher taxes. Should it be figured then that all the promises are vaporware?

 

[mhaze]

I'd like to amend this earlier statement.

It is possible in the sense that nothing specifically prevents a plumber from earning $250K a year, if he can find the work.

The odds that this particular plumber, working where he does and lacking his own license, finding that kind of work is so low as to nearly indistinguishable from zero.

Oh sure, it is certainly impossible to conceive of moving from changing yuppie hot water heaters to plumbing contracts for multi story office buildings. You speaK authoritatively, yet evidence a cluelessness about the trade.

Your vision of defeatism, poverty, and misery of the downtrodden is quite different from Joe's vision, isn't it?

 

[leftysergeant]

Well....Duhhh!!!

That's why a Journeyman is not called an "Apprentice", and while we are at it, the term for the licensed plumber is "Master Plumber".For 2006, the top 1% made >$336k or so. For Obama's $1T in new spending, that'd be an average on that 1% of some $700-800k per year - obviously impossible.

Well, obviously, you are not going to get it out of the hide of the $350K salaried employee of a major corporation. But, since we have a graduatedincome tax, a great deal could and should be wrung out of ther severance packages of failed CEOs, perhaps at punitive rates. They are among the idiots who got us here. A lot of the are Friedmanites.

There is a big disconnect between Obama's promises and any realistic ability to gather money from higher taxes. Should it be figured then that all the promises are vaporware?

Nowhere near the disconnect between this time/space continuum and the Friedmanite wet dream of low taxes and increased revenue.

 

[mhaze]

But, since we have a graduatedincome tax, a great deal could and should be wrung out of ther severance packages of failed CEOs, perhaps at punitive rates.

Nope. You can't "punish" an industry segment or class segment with a punitive income tax approach. Why not just go civil, but criminal charges.

I call "derivatives" fraud, for example.

 

[leftysergeant]

Okay, so "punitive taxation" won't fly. But i do beleive that the severance packages and the last year's salary of CEOs whose former companies went bankrupt and defaulted on pensions should be siezed and trasnsferred to a fund to replace those pensions for rank-and-file workers.

 

[Upchurch]

Well....Duhhh!!!

Well, then why did you say a Journeyman Plumber "is an individual who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber"? As you pointed out, it is an "Apprentice" who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

the term for the licensed plumber is "Master Plumber".For 2006, the top 1% made >$336k or so.

Evidence that supports your claim?

Here is some that contradicts your claim. Another.

eta: I missed the "top 1%" part. I would still like to say evidence that supports that claim.

Oh sure, it is certainly impossible to conceive of moving from changing yuppie hot water heaters to plumbing contracts for multi story office buildings. You speaK authoritatively, yet evidence a cluelessness about the trade.

You asked if a plumber could make $250K. I explained to you the conditions under which a plumber could make that amount and what the realistic wages for plumbers are.

Your vision of defeatism, poverty, and misery of the downtrodden is quite different from Joe's vision, isn't it?

What are you talking about? I'm not saying he can't be a business owner and make lots of money. I was responding to your claim that a plumber, working as a plumber, could make $250K a year. A business owner? Sure. A plumber? There simply aren't enough hours in the day.

Do you use a plumber to make those straw men and how much do you pay them?

 

[Meadmaker]

There is a big disconnect between Obama's promises and any realistic ability to gather money from higher taxes. Should it be figured then that all the promises are vaporware?

Sadly, no. I think he has learned a trick from the GOP, and will pull out the ReaganCharge card.

 

[mr rosewater]

For 2006, the top 1% made >$336k or so. For Obama's $1T in new spending, that'd be an average on that 1% of some $700-800k per year - obviously impossible.

There is a big disconnect between Obama's promises and any realistic ability to gather money from higher taxes. Should it be figured then that all the promises are vaporware?

I think it'll go like this. If Senator Obama is elected once in office he'll tell how shocked he is to find the state of the Bush economy and how the terrible deeds now force him to change his tax plan with a much broader tax on all, but please people blame the evil Bush and so on.

 

[mhaze]

I think it'll go like this. If Senator Obama is elected once in office he'll tell how shocked he is to find the state of the Bush economy and how the terrible deeds now force him to change his tax plan with a much broader tax on all, but please people blame the evil Bush and so on.

Let-him-try.

Not many Democrats (even) would believe or buy into that pack of lies. Upchurch asked for tax data, here. But my point stands even before the economic meltdown, which we all understand has remapped the playing field of progressives' redistribution schemes.

Here's another "Non Truthie Vaporware" from Obama.

Require 10 Percent of Electricity to Come from Renewable Sources by 2012. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will establish a 10 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 10 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2012.
​

Reality?

“There’s probably a gigawatt of press releases and 200 megawatt of plants that acutally will go live in 2010,” says John Woolard, CEO of Oakland-based BrightSource Energy, which has a contract with PG&E to deliver up to 900 megawatts of electricity.

​

Ok, that's a serious forecast for 2010...maybe by 2012, five times that, one gigawatt?Add a couple gigawatts with thousands of (imported) windmills...

10% is 300 gigawatts.


http://greenwombat.blogs.fortune.cn...unch-darkens-solars-prospects/?lars-prospects


By contrast, McCain's platform call for 45 nuclear plants is doable and credible.

 

[mhaze]

Well, then why did you say a Journeyman Plumber "is an individual who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber"? As you pointed out, it is an "Apprentice" who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber.

As must journeymen also.

The strawman, though, is ... the "Joe the Liar" meme, propagated in this thread but originating in some left wing disinformation sources.

We clearly see then, a practical avenue to success for Joe in the phrases Joe used in his talk with Obama.

 

[mr rosewater]

Let-him-try.

Not many Democrats (even) would believe or buy into that pack of lies. Upchurch asked for tax data, here. But my point stands even before the economic meltdown, which we all understand has remapped the playing field of progressives' redistribution schemes.

Here's another "Non Truthie Vaporware" from Obama.

Require 10 Percent of Electricity to Come from Renewable Sources by 2012. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will establish a 10 percent federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) to require that 10 percent of electricity consumed in the U.S. is derived from clean, sustainable energy sources, like solar, wind and geothermal by 2012.
​

Reality?

“There’s probably a gigawatt of press releases and 200 megawatt of plants that acutally will go live in 2010,” says John Woolard, CEO of Oakland-based BrightSource Energy, which has a contract with PG&E to deliver up to 900 megawatts of electricity.

​

Ok, that's a serious forecast for 2010...maybe by 2012, five times that, one gigawatt?Add a couple gigawatts with thousands of (imported) windmills...

10% is 300 gigawatts.


http://greenwombat.blogs.fortune.cn...unch-darkens-solars-prospects/?lars-prospects


By contrast, McCain's platform call for 45 nuclear plants is doable and credible.

Que The Barney

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/21/video-barney-frank-wants-more-taxes/

I think at this point, there needs to be an immediate increase in spending, and I think this is a time when deficit fear has to take a second, uh, a second seat. I do think this is the time for a very important kind of dose of [unintelligible]. Yes, I think later on, there should be tax increases. Speaking personally, I think there are a lot of rich people out there who we can tax at a point down the road to recover some of this money.

 

[T.A.M.]

Poor Joe, the heretic had the nerve to doubt Obama. This can not be tolerated. He will be assimilated, he will be assimilated, he will be assimilated. Resistance is futile, and soon to be illegal.

Hoping there's change and like, cool.

Poor Joe, the planted GOP supporter who McCain has latched on to like a drowning victim grapples with the life guard.

TAM

 

[leftysergeant]

Ok, that's a serious forecast for 2010...maybe by 2012, five times that, one gigawatt?Add a couple gigawatts with thousands of (imported) windmills.

We have the capacity to build windmills here. The establishment of more physical plant to do so can be subsidized without harming working people by taxin the cap gains of such people the Walton larvae at a higher tax rate than earned income.

By contrast, McCain's platform call for 45 nuclear plants is doable and credible.

No. It takes at least five years to build a nuke plant. There are windmill and solar panel makers here now. Give them a cap gains break. It will pay for itself.

 

[Upchurch]

Upchurch asked for tax data, here.

That isn't what I asked for, nor does it support your claim.

The strawman, though, is ... the "Joe the Liar" meme, propagated in this thread but originating in some left wing disinformation sources.

Actually, I was speaking specifically about the straw man you presented earlier:

Your vision of defeatism, poverty, and misery of the downtrodden is quite different from Joe's vision, isn't it?

Unless you can tell me where I said any of that? No?

We clearly see then, a practical avenue to success for Joe in the phrases Joe used in his talk with Obama.

And yet, Obama didn't actually do anything to this man, did he?

 

[Malerin]

As must journeymen also.

The strawman, though, is ... the "Joe the Liar" meme, propagated in this thread but originating in some left wing disinformation sources.

O'rly? An unlicensed plumber (without even a driver's license) with a lien on him for owing back STATE taxes (a staggering sum of $1,100) is "getting ready" to buy a $250,000 company. Uh huh. Unless you think "getting ready" means "will never happen", Joe is LYING.

Furthermore, Joe was either lying about how much the company he's "getting ready to buy" actually makes, or he's such an idiot, he doesn't even KNOW how much the company he's "getting ready to buy" makes.

But I'll settle for Joe "the Idiot"

 

[mhaze]

That isn't what I asked for, nor does it support your claim.

What is it you want, then?

 

[Upchurch]

That the top 1% of Master Plumbers make >$336k.

 

[mhaze]

O'rly? An unlicensed plumber (without even a driver's license) with a lien on him for owing back STATE taxes (a staggering sum of $1,100) is "getting ready" to buy a $250,000 company. Uh huh. Unless you think "getting ready" means "will never happen", Joe is LYING.

Furthermore, Joe was either lying about how much the company he's "getting ready to buy" actually makes, or he's such an idiot, he doesn't even KNOW how much the company he's "getting ready to buy" makes.

But I'll settle for Joe "the Idiot"

Or Malarin the ....

Here's the way it would typically be done in small business:

The owner sells the business to Joe, retires but stays on so his Master's license can be used. A period of three or five years is typical. Financing is a loan between the owner and Joe for the $250k. If Joe fails to make his payments, he's in default and the loan might be called.

Upshot: If Joe works hard and succeeds, he makes a boatload more money than Malerin.

Wheee!!!

 

[mhaze]

That the top 1% of Master Plumbers make >$336k.

No, I have no number for that. I was replying to Rosewater's comment and referred to the top 1% of those filing US tax returns.

Originally Posted by mr rosewater
I continue to believe that taxes will be increased across all levels of income no matter what these two candidates say, except the poorest of course, now I don't want to call them liars that would be rude.
​

For 2006, the top 1% made >$336k or so. For Obama's $1T in new spending, that'd be an average on that 1% of some $700-800k per year - obviously impossible.

However...

The top 1% of Master Plumbers would certainly be a bunch of serious wage earners, as it would include bunches of business owners with 50-350 on their payroll, plus those working in refineries and chemical process plants, many overseas on payroll for Halliburton, Fluor Daniels, etc.

So that whole bunch would be making a lot, wouldn't they?