Joe the Liar

[Meadmaker]

Did Obama know about Ayres past when he provided a glowing endorsement of a book by Ayers in the Dec. 21, 1997 Chicago Tribune? It is difficult to beleive that Obama could be such a dolt about the identities of people whose books he endorses.

Well, don't keep us in suspense. What sort of book was it, and did it deserve a glowing endorsement?

 

[Meadmaker]

Yes, of course, he would have known of his past then. Why should it stop him endorsing a book? Was the book on terrorism? Building bombs? Apparently what Obama is guilty of is accepting Ayers as he is now, not as he was decades ago.

After some googling, I found the review.

The title of the book was "A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court"

Obama’s review of Ayers’ book says, “A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair.”

Now, I hope no moderators are paying attention, because this post contains two separate violations of forum rules. First, it's way off topic, because it has nothing to do with Joe the Plumber.

Not only that, it also violates rule 4. That's the one about posting copyrighted material in its entirety. You see, the one sentence quoted above from Obama's review of Ayers' book is not an excerpt. It's the entire review. I would try and find an appropriate excerpt, but I think such a glowing review would have its import diminished if even a single word were removed. I therefore throw myself upon the mercy of the court.

 

[Tricky]

Not only that, it also violates rule 4. That's the one about posting copyrighted material in its entirety. You see, the one sentence quoted above from Obama's review of Ayers' book is not an excerpt. It's the entire review. I would try and find an appropriate excerpt, but I think such a glowing review would have its import diminished if even a single word were removed. I therefore throw myself upon the mercy of the court.

You damn spambot.

 

[Ausmerican]

After some googling, I found the review.

The title of the book was "A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court"

Obama’s review of Ayers’ book says, “A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair.”

Now, I hope no moderators are paying attention, because this post contains two separate violations of forum rules. First, it's way off topic, because it has nothing to do with Joe the Plumber.

Not only that, it also violates rule 4. That's the one about posting copyrighted material in its entirety. You see, the one sentence quoted above from Obama's review of Ayers' book is not an excerpt. It's the entire review. I would try and find an appropriate excerpt, but I think such a glowing review would have its import diminished if even a single word were removed. I therefore throw myself upon the mercy of the court.

Wow. I can see why Cicero called it a glowing endorsement. With the few words used a glow is all you could get out of it. A glimmer perhaps.

 

[Cicero]

I dont know and you dont either. That's my point. You are assuming and you know what they say about assuming.



Yes, of course, he would have known of his past then. Why should it stop him endorsing a book? Was the book on terrorism? Building bombs? Apparently what Obama is guilty of is accepting Ayers as he is now, not as he was decades ago. And that guilt covers a lot of people of all ideologies and political beliefs. However this is way off topic, none of it is about Joe the thinks he's a plumber.

Let's examine your assumptions. Obama didn't have a clue who Ayers was in 1980. Obama was still clueless about Ayers past in 1995. But by 1997, Obama caught on to the fact that Ayres tried to blow up The Pentagon when Obama was 8 years-old.

Since Ayres is a model citizen today, why doesn't Obama consider him for a cabinet position? Ayres has a PhD in Education and wrote a book about juveniles and the criminal justice system. Why not make him Secretary of Education? Considering Ayers knowledge of explosives, he could also serve as Director of BATFE.

Why is Obama shutting this model citizen out of his life now?

Since the Obamaniacs say that there is nothing untoward in Obama's relationship with Ayrers, and that Ayres is actually their type of guy, why does Obama not want to consider his friend for a position in his administration?

 

[Meadmaker]

Since the Obamaniacs say that there is nothing untoward in Obama's relationship with Ayrers, and that Ayres is actually their type of guy, why does Obama not want to consider his friend for a position in his administration?

I think it would be much more logical to assume that Obama would step aside from his position upon election, and start a new hereditary monarchy of the United States with Bill Ayers being the first King.

Well, perhaps it would not be any more logical than what you suggested, but it wouldn't be any less logical either. Both lines of reasoning are equally falacious.

 

[Meadmaker]

You damn spambot.

Oh, man! Mercy denied!

 

[Ausmerican]

Let's examine your assumptions. Obama didn't have a clue who Ayers was in 1980. Obama was still clueless about Ayers past in 1995. But by 1997, Obama caught on to the fact that Ayres tried to blow up The Pentagon when Obama was 8 years-old.

Yes this is a process called learning. As new information presents itself to you you take it in and know more as a result.

Since Ayres is a model citizen today, why doesn't Obama consider him for a cabinet position? Ayres has a PhD in Education and wrote a book about juveniles and the criminal justice system. Why not make him Secretary of Education? Considering Ayers knowledge of explosives, he could also serve as Director of BATFE.

Maybe, apparently unlike you, he doesn't think a three decades old knowledge of explosives is a qualification to head an agency that contains a bunch of other things in its title? Hell I have used alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives, does that make me qualified by your estimation?

Why is Obama shutting this model citizen out of his life now?

I dont suppose there is a chance you might show us some examples of Obama or his supporters calling Ayers a "model citizen"?

Since the Obamaniacs say that there is nothing untoward in Obama's relationship with Ayrers, and that Ayres is actually their type of guy, why does Obama not want to consider his friend for a position in his administration?

Do you buy your straw wholesale or pay full price?
Would you care to show where these 'Obamaniacs' have stated that Ayers is actually "their type of guy"? Please note 'in your imagination' is not a valid source.
Maybe Obama doesn't consider Ayers for a cabinet position because he finds his past reprehensible? Maybe he doesn't consider his friend Bill Ayers for a cabinet position because he appoints people to cabinet positions based on qualifications not friendship unlike the current administration. Or maybe it's because the only people I have heard call Bill Ayers Obamas 'friend' are people on the right who can never back it up?

 

[Cicero]

Yes this is a process called learning. As new information presents itself to you you take it in and know more as a result.



Maybe, apparently unlike you, he doesn't think a three decades old knowledge of explosives is a qualification to head an agency that contains a bunch of other things in its title? Hell I have used alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives, does that make me qualified by your estimation?



I dont suppose there is a chance you might show us some examples of Obama or his supporters calling Ayers a "model citizen"?



Do you buy your straw wholesale or pay full price?
Would you care to show where these 'Obamaniacs' have stated that Ayers is actually "their type of guy"? Please note 'in your imagination' is not a valid source.
Maybe Obama doesn't consider Ayers for a cabinet position because he finds his past reprehensible? Maybe he doesn't consider his friend Bill Ayers for a cabinet position because he appoints people to cabinet positions based on qualifications not friendship unlike the current administration. Or maybe it's because the only people I have heard call Bill Ayers Obamas 'friend' are people on the right who can never back it up?

Actually ATF is also in charge of the regulation/transfer/registration of MG/SMG/SBR/AOW firearms related to the 1934 Firearm Act. Could you describe your experience with explosives? Is this new knowledge, or decades old knowledge?

I thought Ayres past was no longer an issue since Ayres has redeemed himself by becoming a college professor?

You seem to be conflicted about the true persona of Ayres.

Isn't it time for you to remind us that all this is off topic, again?

 

[Malerin]

Yes this is a process called learning. As new information presents itself to you you take it in and know more as a result.



Maybe, apparently unlike you, he doesn't think a three decades old knowledge of explosives is a qualification to head an agency that contains a bunch of other things in its title? Hell I have used alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives, does that make me qualified by your estimation?



I dont suppose there is a chance you might show us some examples of Obama or his supporters calling Ayers a "model citizen"?



Do you buy your straw wholesale or pay full price?
Would you care to show where these 'Obamaniacs' have stated that Ayers is actually "their type of guy"? Please note 'in your imagination' is not a valid source.
Maybe Obama doesn't consider Ayers for a cabinet position because he finds his past reprehensible? Maybe he doesn't consider his friend Bill Ayers for a cabinet position because he appoints people to cabinet positions based on qualifications not friendship unlike the current administration. Or maybe it's because the only people I have heard call Bill Ayers Obamas 'friend' are people on the right who can never back it up?

LOL!

 

[BOB]

Plumbers always rip me off. Do we need plumber values in the Whitehouse?

 

[mhaze]

Plumbers always rip me off. Do we need plumber values in the Whitehouse?

So you agree that a plumber could make $250K?

Yes, we do need plumber values in the White House. Because although they'd like to make their $250k, they'd never dream of stealing the peoples' $700B or $2T or whatever the current tab is.

 

[Upchurch]

So you agree that a plumber could make $250K?

Just for a little perspective:

The very highest median pay scale for plumber (coincidentally enough, found in Chicago) is $38.60/hour. Assuming a plumber making this much works 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, that's a little over $80K annually.

Of course, that is the median.

In order to make over $250k annually, a plumber would have to earn at least $120.20 an hour (again, working 40/52). That's over three times the highest median hourly wage for a plumber in the country.

Is it possible? In the sense that it is conceivable, yes. Is it likely? No.

 

[BenBurch]

Plumbers always rip me off. Do we need plumber values in the Whitehouse?

We already had enough problems with Plumbers in a Repub White House.

 

[webfusion]

Samuel Wurzelbacher.

Shill.

 

[mhaze]

Just for a little perspective:

The very highest median pay scale for plumber (coincidentally enough, found in Chicago) is $38.60/hour. Assuming a plumber making this much works 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, that's a little over $80K annually.

You realize you have linked to a "journeyman's" wages? That is an individual who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber. Yet he may have 20 years experience.

Now consider the idiots here and elsewhere who have repeatedly smeared Joe by claiming he "wasn't a (licensed) plumber ".

 

[Upchurch]

You realize you have linked to a "journeyman's" wages? That is an individual who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber. Yet he may have 20 years experience.

Actually, a Journeyman is someone who has completed an apprenticeship.

I was trying to be generous by finding the highest wage I could find for a plumber. Most wages are much lower. The Bureau of Labor Statistics lists the top median wage (in NJ) as $36.90/hour. The national median is only $22.76. And Ohio isn't even in the top 5 highest paying states.

None of which changes the fact that in order to earn better than $250K a year, Joe would have to earn $120.20/hour for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year.

Now consider the idiots here and elsewhere who have repeatedly smeared Joe by claiming he "wasn't a (licensed) plumber ".

Well, he's not. He's an assistant to a licensed plumber. Presumably, an assistant to a plumber does not make as much or more than an actual licensed plumber. The odds of Joe making that $250K transition point are even lower because of that.

If anything, Joe's would probably have a lower income tax rate under Obama's plan than under McCain's.

 

[mr rosewater]

You realize you have linked to a "journeyman's" wages? That is an individual who must work under the supervision of a licensed plumber. Yet he may have 20 years experience.

Now consider the idiots here and elsewhere who have repeatedly smeared Joe by claiming he "wasn't a (licensed) plumber ".

I wonder if some people don't earn extra cash under the table, side jobs, this has nothing to do with Senator Obama"s plan or maybe it does and if it becomes a reality more people will work and report less.

 

[DavidJames]

I wonder if some people don't earn extra cash under the table, side jobs, this has nothing to do with Senator Obama"s plan or maybe it does and if it becomes a reality more people will work and report less.

Maybe it's a reflection of the type of people I know, but most of those that work side jobs, under the table things, are not making a quarter million a year. Those that are making that, aren't the kind of folks who would work a side job to make a few bucks more. If they are, they, working in concert with their accountant have been doing that all along.

 

[Upchurch]

Is it possible? In the sense that it is conceivable, yes. Is it likely? No.

I'd like to amend this earlier statement.

It is possible in the sense that nothing specifically prevents a plumber from earning $250K a year, if he can find the work.

The odds that this particular plumber, working where he does and lacking his own license, finding that kind of work is so low as to nearly indistinguishable from zero.