Joe the Liar

[Cicero]

Wait, you mean that literally? You aren't speaking metaphorically? That's what your problem is? They didn't put trucks out in front of the house of a public figure whose history is fairly well known with a simple google search?




No, but seriously:

And yet you are the one who still refuses to accept the proof of the Obama/Ayers connection found through a "simple google search." Whether speaking metaphorically, metaphysically, theoretically, hypothetically, or literally, the msm never stuck a microphone in front of Ayrers since his association with Obama came up.

 

[Ausmerican]

1) No. The press never sent out any satellite trucks to Ayres home to camp out until he came out and gave an interview. If all anyone has to do to avoid being hounded by the press is to say that they don't give interviews, why has that tactic not worked for any other high profile person that has been drawn into this election story?

Such as who? Joe seems only to happy to appear on camera, on the radio, anywhere that'll have him. I especially like the way he appears in the media to complain about media attention.

2) You said there was nothing to the Obama/Ayers connection. CNN proved otherwise.

Even if the story of that meeting at Ayers house is true, which has yet to be proven, that meeting IIRC was not set up by Obama but by the woman making the announcement of who she wanted to replace her.
It does not seem to have been a fundraiser or anything more than a somewhat informal informational meeting and it is quite possible at that time that Obama might not have known who Ayers was or even whose house they were going to. So even if that story is true, what do you think it shows reagarding a 'relationship' between Obama and Ayers?
Seriously when it comes to the Ayers/Obama thing McCain and his supporters are up there with troofers for JAQing off without actually saying anything.

 

[Cicero]

So even if that story is true, what do you think it shows reagarding a 'relationship' between Obama and Ayers?
Seriously when it comes to the Ayers/Obama thing McCain and his supporters are up there with troofers for JAQing off without actually saying anything.

Is CNN a McCain supporter? Since when? I know I am not a McCain supporter. So why is the fact that Obama's political career began at the home of Ayres some sort of conspriacy theory? It happened. If this occasion was merely an evanescent event, why does Obama go out of his way to deny it ever happened? Why does he simultaneously dismiss and prop up Ayres by referring to him as a "university professor with a PhD in education?" If this is truly the reformed Bill Ayers, then why is Obama shy about what happened in Ayres home in 1995?

 

[Ausmerican]

Is CNN a McCain supporter? Since when? I know I am not a McCain supporter.

Is CNN running with this story daily or is it just one item of many on their fact check site? Are you saying that only you and CNN and no McCain supporters or McCain himself are pushing this story? Otherwise I don't see how those statements are relevant to what I said.

So why is the fact that Obama's political career began at the home of Ayres some sort of conspriacy theory? It happened. If this occasion was merely an evanescent event, why does Obama go out of his way to deny it ever happened?

Where was it referred to as a conspiracy theory? Can you provide examples of Obama "going out of his way to deny" this event "ever happened"?

Why does he simultaneously dismiss and prop up Ayres by referring to him as a "university professor with a PhD in education?" If this is truly the reformed Bill Ayers, then why is Obama shy about what happened in Ayres home in 1995?

How is it dismissing and propping up Ayers to call him what he is? 'Ayers the Terrorist' is not someone Obama ever met. Dont quote me on that, I dont know what Obama was doing at 8 years old. The Ayers that Obama has served on a board, etc with IS Ayers the "university professor with a PhD in education".

The reformed part of your response could almost be a separate thread. Apparently the so called christian values of redemption and forgiveness do not apply in politics.

 

[Cicero]

Is CNN running with this story daily or is it just one item of many on their fact check site? Are you saying that only you and CNN and no McCain supporters or McCain himself are pushing this story? Otherwise I don't see how those statements are relevant to what I said.



Where was it referred to as a conspiracy theory? Can you provide examples of Obama "going out of his way to deny" this event "ever happened"?



How is it dismissing and propping up Ayers to call him what he is? 'Ayers the Terrorist' is not someone Obama ever met. Dont quote me on that, I dont know what Obama was doing at 8 years old. The Ayers that Obama has served on a board, etc with IS Ayers the "university professor with a PhD in education".

The reformed part of your response could almost be a separate thread. Apparently the so called christian values of redemption and forgiveness do not apply in politics.

Obama said in the last debate that he denied what happened at Ayers house in 1995.

If you think Ayres is a reformed anarchist, and that he has repudiated his radical views, or that he has showed any contrition since the time Obama was 8 years old, think again. Ayres himself said in 2001:

''I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough.'' -- from No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives.New York Times, September 11, 2001

So Obama has met Ayres the unrepentant terrorist.

 

[Ausmerican]

Obama said in the last debate that he denied what happened at Ayers house in 1995.

Not true:

and you launched your political campaign in Mr. Ayers' living room.

That was what he responded to as untrue. He was telling the truth. He didn't launch his campaign there. State Senator Alice Palmer was introducing her chosen successor, Obama, to a few of the district’s influential liberals at the home of two well known figures on the local left: William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. This is obviously not lauching his campaign there, which is what he denied. And again I would ask, do you not think it possible that Obama may not have known who Ayers had been and what he had done decades earlier on that night?

If you think Ayres is a reformed anarchist, and that he has repudiated his radical views, or that he has showed any contrition since the time Obama was 8 years old, think again. Ayres himself said in 2001:

''I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough.'' -- from No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives.New York Times, September 11, 2001

So Obama has met Ayres the unrepentant terrorist.

That would be Obama has met Ayers the University Professor with a Phd in Education that is an unrepentant EX terrorist. As far as I know it has been decades since Ayers has done anything that could be construed as terrorist activities. And you are also presuming that Obama was aware of the quotes from 2001. Were you aware of them until they were brought up in this campaign?

 

[Upchurch]

So, what does this have to do with Joe Whats-his-name asking a stupid question and McCain thrusting him into the media frenzy?

 

[Cicero]

And again I would ask, do you not think it possible that Obama may not have known who Ayers had been and what he had done decades earlier on that night?

Were you aware of them until they were brought up in this campaign?

Ayers only claim to infamy is that he was a major player in the Weather Underground. If Obama didn't know this, then Cox Cable can use Obama in their next commercial.

The defense for ignorance phrase, "that was before my time" has never carried any weight with me. In 1980, when Obama was 19, The Weather Underground members Ayrers and Dorn turned themselves in with substantial media coverage. Just exactly when did Obama plug into pop culture?

 

[Ausmerican]

Ayers only claim to infamy is that he was a major player in the Weather Underground. If Obama didn't know this, then Cox Cable can use Obama in their next commercial.

The defense for ignorance phrase, "that was before my time" has never carried any weight with me. In 1980, when Obama was 19, The Weather Underground members Ayrers and Dorn turned themselves in with substantial media coverage. Just exactly when did Obama plug into pop culture?

His only claim to infamy yes. His only claim to fame, no. Apparently he is a very well known University Professor and local activist in Chicago. In 1980 when Ayers and Dorn turned themselves in Obama was in Los Angeles studying at college. Then he moved to New York, studying at college. Maybe he was a little busy for popular culture.
And while the before my time argument doesn't cut it for you you never answered if you were aware of Ayers 2001 statements before this campaign started or if you would've known who he was in 95.
Uppy, you are right, this has all gone waaaay off topic. Mea Culpa. No wait! It's all Ciceros fault! I am innocent!

 

[mhaze]

Wait, you mean that literally? You aren't speaking metaphorically? That's what your problem is? They didn't put trucks out in front of the house of a public figure whose history is fairly well known with a simple google search?

I certainly mean trucks in front of Ayers house in a literal sense.

Now let's reverse your argument and use it against your position (yet once more).

Ayers - "a public figure whose history is fairly well known with a simple google search."

Obama, to not be aware of who Ayers is and was, must be stupid, gullible, naive, ignorant, or completely complicit with the radical agenda of Ayers.Not thinking he's a bad person (like Ayers), I conclude he is either stupid, gullible, naive or ignorant. Bad qualities for a President, wouldn't you say?

So, what does this have to do with Joe Whats-his-name asking a stupid question and McCain thrusting him into the media frenzy?

By all means change the subject back to the Smear Joe subject OP, you got a dog here won't hunt.

 

[leftysergeant]

Obama, to not be aware of who Ayers is and was, must be stupid, gullible, naive, ignorant, or completely complicit with the radical agenda of Ayers.Not thinking he's a bad person (like Ayers), I conclude he is either stupid, gullible, naive or ignorant.

I'm left of Dennis Kucinich myself, I participated in a lot of anti-war activities in that time frame and did not even know who Ayers was until the rightwingnuts started shrieking about him.

The whole country knows who Joe is because he thinks he has a point to make.

The point we got is that he is a moron who does not know what is good for him in the current situation.

Sprewading the wealth around does not mean taking it away from capitalists who have worked for it (most of them actually didn't) and giving it to people who do not work. It means tax the people who used up the resources to rebuild the resources that allow prosperity and stop taking it from the people who make the ecconomny on Main Street work.

 

[Upchurch]

I certainly mean trucks in front of Ayers house in a literal sense.

Ayers - "a public figure whose history is fairly well known with a simple google search."

Obama, to not be aware of who Ayers is and was, must be stupid, gullible, naive, ignorant, or completely complicit with the radical agenda of Ayers.Not thinking he's a bad person (like Ayers), I conclude he is either stupid, gullible, naive or ignorant. Bad qualities for a President, wouldn't you say?

So... you expected Obama to have done, say, a Google or even a Lexis/Nexis search in the mid-1990's when he first met Ayers?

First, how many of the people you meet do you immediately follow with a google search? Second, that would have been an additional feat since Google hadn't been invented yet.

 

[mhaze]

So... you expected Obama to have done, say, a Google or even a Lexis/Nexis search in the mid-1990's when he first met Ayers

No, I said that he could be quite naive and/or gullible, evidenced by the likes of this.

 

[Upchurch]

No, I said that he could be quite naive and/or gullible, evidenced by the likes of this.

Who isn't at the start of their career? That was, what, 13-14 years ago?

 

[mhaze]

Who isn't at the start of their career? That was, what, 13-14 years ago?

...Naive and gullible refers to then, and now...

 

[Meadmaker]

But are you seriously suggesting that with predictions of recession, cutting cap gains would not be a good thing?

Yes.

 

[Meadmaker]

On the subject of Ayers, I think it is highly likely that Obama knew about Ayers' past. At the very least, he would have known of Dorn's past. She was much more famous.

And that matters, because.....?

Perhaps if someone could explain the significance of their relationship, that might help. As best I can tell, Obama was in the home of Ayers and Dorn once, for some campaigning, and they served together on the board of a charitable foundation, in which capacity they would have met a few times per year.

I'm not following why I ought to give a hoot. Let's see if I grasp it. If a kooky leftist with an unsavory past once held a function at his home, and it was attended by an aspiring politician, that makes said politician unfit for office. Did I get that right?

 

[Cicero]

His only claim to infamy yes. His only claim to fame, no. Apparently he is a very well known University Professor and local activist in Chicago. In 1980 when Ayers and Dorn turned themselves in Obama was in Los Angeles studying at college. Then he moved to New York, studying at college. Maybe he was a little busy for popular culture.
And while the before my time argument doesn't cut it for you you never answered if you were aware of Ayers 2001 statements before this campaign started or if you would've known who he was in 95.

So Obama didn't read The LA Times, watch the evening news, or hear about this from his professors at Occidental College back in 1980? The same college where the faculty voted to suspend classes in the wake of the Kent State shootings and America’s invasion of Cambodia in 1970? This college sounds like a place where the arrest of Ayers would be the talk of the campus.

Did Obama know about Ayres past when he provided a glowing endorsement of a book by Ayers in the Dec. 21, 1997 Chicago Tribune? It is difficult to beleive that Obama could be such a dolt about the identities of people whose books he endorses.

***.."A month before the item appeared, on Nov. 20, 1997, Michelle Obama, then dean of student services and director of the University Community Service Center, held a panel at the University of Chicago that featured both Barack Obama and Ayers.

“Ayers will be joined by Sen. Barack Obama, Senior Lecturer in the Law School, who is working to combat legislation that would put more juvenile offenders into the adult system,” the University of Chicago Chronicle reported on Nov. 6, 1997."..***

 

[Ausmerican]

So Obama didn't read The LA Times, watch the evening news, or hear about this from his professors at Occidental College back in 1980? The same college where the faculty voted to suspend classes in the wake of the Kent State shootings and America’s invasion of Cambodia in 1970? This college sounds like a place where the arrest of Ayers would be the talk of the campus.

I dont know and you dont either. That's my point. You are assuming and you know what they say about assuming.

Did Obama know about Ayres past when he provided a glowing endorsement of a book by Ayers in the Dec. 21, 1997 Chicago Tribune? It is difficult to beleive that Obama could be such a dolt about the identities of people whose books he endorses.

***.."A month before the item appeared, on Nov. 20, 1997, Michelle Obama, then dean of student services and director of the University Community Service Center, held a panel at the University of Chicago that featured both Barack Obama and Ayers.

“Ayers will be joined by Sen. Barack Obama, Senior Lecturer in the Law School, who is working to combat legislation that would put more juvenile offenders into the adult system,” the University of Chicago Chronicle reported on Nov. 6, 1997."..***

Yes, of course, he would have known of his past then. Why should it stop him endorsing a book? Was the book on terrorism? Building bombs? Apparently what Obama is guilty of is accepting Ayers as he is now, not as he was decades ago. And that guilt covers a lot of people of all ideologies and political beliefs. However this is way off topic, none of it is about Joe the thinks he's a plumber.

 

[kallsop]

Poor Joe, the heretic had the nerve to doubt Obama. This can not be tolerated. He will be assimilated, he will be assimilated, he will be assimilated. Resistance is futile, and soon to be illegal.

Hoping there's change and like, cool.