Jobless Occutards Going On Strike In Oakland

[Childlike Empress]

Do you understand the difference between theory and practice?

You are missing the point and don't know what Marxism^WP is. Read the first paragraph.

btw, those terms don't fit the current situation because we are living in post-industrialized societies, and Marxism is an analysis of Industrialism. That's why the strike of the jobless seems so absurd. They have nothing to take away from the system because they are useless in terms of profit.

 

[WildCat]

The currently practiced form of capitalism hasn't (and won't) be producing very many.

Time to try something new. I wouldn't call for a centrally planned economy, but certainly would for a significantly better regulated one than what we currently have.

So you agree that the OWS demand to end capitalism is not going to produce any jobs?

 

[WildCat]

Captialism is doing a fine job of creating just those sorts of jobs in Chinese labor camps, Indian, Pakistani, Brazillian sweatshops, and plenty of other places where the pay is for a WEEK less than what a first world worker makes in a DAY.

Why are you comparing 3rd world pay scales to first world ones?

You don't give a damn about those people in 3rd world countries, thus the ridiculous demand that they get no jobs until they get paid comparable to 1st world workers. IOW, you want them to remain subsistence farmers making a fraction of what those in the sweatshops make.

 

[WildCat]

You are missing the point and don't know what Marxism^WP is. Read the first paragraph.

Maybe you can provide an example of a Marxist state that didn't become a totalitarian state in practice? How'd it work out in the DDR? Marxist paradise?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Marxism is a way of analysis, not a state system.

 

[TruthersLie]

You were the one who posited that unemployed people were somehow responsible for their own fate and would quickly and easily find jobs once their benefits were about to run out.

I didn't say that. you might want to go back and re read it.

I never once blamed the unemployed for their situation. I have stated and stand by the statement that there are many individuals who are unemployed who are not really looking for work, or who are too picky when it comes to work and it is much easier to do the minimum and collect unemployment.

Reading for comprehension is your friend.

I pointed out that:

1) It was the EMPLOYERS who were at fault, timing re-hires to exploit unemployment benefits. It was NOT a decision by the workers themselves.

You didn't read that link I posted very well.... I understand. go back and re read it.

and

2) There are a vast number of people (growing by the week), who have EXHAUSTED all benefits and still cannot find jobs.

and?

or should I say it

so what? I doesn't change my premise that many people who are on unemployment don't REALLY look for work until that unemployment is about to run out. I posted links which support that assertion.

I then posted a link to articles that proved what I said.

All you've done is bloviate about how the unemployed "won't work until their benefits run out".

You don't know what you're talking about. I do, as I've lived it.

No **** sherlock. So have I. I have posted direct evidence of my living through being unemployed for 4 months and boy did I really enjoy the time off. I really enjoyed working under the table to make some extra scratch. And then when it was running out, I took jobs necessary to keep a roof over my head and food on my table... even though the jobs were "beneath" my education level or work expectations.

I have posted over 1000 jobs in Alabama.... and they get less than 100 people for them. They are jobs but they are jobs many americans don't want. We have another poster who pointed out their company was hiring 100 people and couldn't get 1/3 of the positions filled. I have posted numerous classified ads sections FILLED with jobs. As soon as you realize that if you are hungry, if you need a job you take whatever is offered. Too bad too many americans have forgotten that.

 

[TruthersLie]

Captialism is doing a fine job of creating just those sorts of jobs in Chinese labor camps, Indian, Pakistani, Brazillian sweatshops, and plenty of other places where the pay is for a WEEK less than what a first world worker makes in a DAY.

oh my oh my oh my.... now we move into the labor and wage inequality in developing countries vs first world countries.

So what is the cost of living in China, India, Pakistan and Brazil? (if you don't know, I can tell you having lived and worked in China, India, and Pakistan. I haven't lived or worked in Brazil yet, but it is on the list.

i can tell you that the cost of living in india, china and pakistan is substantially lower than in the US... like the cost of eating out all three meals in china is maybe $3.00 a day (and that is nice meals, not cheap meals). Of course the cost of eating in india is about the same.

Of course that leaves out how the US companies who open sweatshops in those countries actually pay MORE than the similar chinese, indian and pakistani sweatshops.... and are safer with better working conditions.

 

[Newtons Bit]

oh my oh my oh my.... now we move into the labor and wage inequality in developing countries vs first world countries.

So what is the cost of living in China, India, Pakistan and Brazil? (if you don't know, I can tell you having lived and worked in China, India, and Pakistan. I haven't lived or worked in Brazil yet, but it is on the list.

i can tell you that the cost of living in india, china and pakistan is substantially lower than in the US... like the cost of eating out all three meals in china is maybe $3.00 a day (and that is nice meals, not cheap meals). Of course the cost of eating in india is about the same.

Of course that leaves out how the US companies who open sweatshops in those countries actually pay MORE than the similar chinese, indian and pakistani sweatshops.... and are safer with better working conditions.

The suicide nets do help!

 

[TruthersLie]

The suicide nets do help!

Well there are plenty of other ways to commit suicide in china.
Like driving
or drinking the tap water
or working for any mining company
or selling drugs

 

[Virus]

Captialism is doing a fine job of creating just those sorts of jobs in Chinese labor camps, Indian, Pakistani, Brazillian sweatshops, and plenty of other places where the pay is for a WEEK less than what a first world worker makes in a DAY.

Yet people choose that over subsistence agriculture and end up being able to send their kids to university.

But congrats on not knowing the difference between a developed and a developing economy.

 

[Virus]

Marxism is a way of analysis, not a state system.

Yet the people who created these ghastly regimes were avowed Marxists.

Where did you grow up? East or West Germany?

 

[stokes234]

Legions? Really? ROFL
So once again, you mean to tell me that there are no jobs available?

http://www.azcentral.com/jobs/
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/classifieds/
http://www.boston.com/classifieds/
http://www.latimes.com/classified/jobs/

Amazing... do you mean to tell me that there are NO jobs in any of those classifieds? Yes or no will suffice.

But are there many jobs that people think are "beneath them?" Yes or no will suffice.

I'd be wary of posting links to job pages like that. Doubtless there are people who refuse to take jobs they deem to be beneath them, i'm not disputing that, but I remember from my experience applying for jobs found on pages like the above that most of them have already gone, they just don't get taken down straight away.

 

[JihadJane]

I would ask the author: positive for WHO, exactly? Knocking the entire world quite possibly back to the economic stone age as all modern production and trade infrastructure broke down because there was no finance to keep it going?

How many millions of people (even people living in "developed" nations) would die as a result of the collapse of food production, fuel production, etc as a result?

Read the article.

I didn't say that. you might want to go back and re read it.

I never once blamed the unemployed for their situation. I have stated and stand by the statement that there are many individuals who are unemployed who are not really looking for work, or who are too picky when it comes to work and it is much easier to do the minimum and collect unemployment.

Your second sentence appears to contradict your first (blaming of the unemployed for their situation hilited)!

 

[L.Y.S.]

Yet the people who created these ghastly regimes were avowed Marxists.

Where did you grow up? East or West Germany?

Irrelevant, you and the order of the Knights of the Reich-Wing portray it as if only leftist movements have contributed to totalitarianism when a fair share of nationalists, militarists, and religious right movements have caused the same amount of devastation. The pathway to totalitarianism is not leftist+ communism= totalitarianism. It is, small group of domineering paranoid individuals + the necessary means = totalitarianism. Party lines or ideologies are not included.

And I am sick and tired of individuals like you and wild cat biasedly portraying political ideologies to make it seem as though only a specific political ideology has done harm to humanity in recent history. For Christ sake right-wing movements are responsible for the death of nearly 60 million++ people in the 20th century alone. And left wing movements are responsible for the same if not more deaths. As long as a small group of dumb asses concentrates power into their hands humans will suffer, regardless of political ideology.

So stop portraying it as if only one political ideology harms people. The occupy movement is much more diverse than is being painted in this thread. I can guarantee you of that. And mixed in with all the liberals, communists, and anarchists are groups of right-wing religious fanatics screaming the world is over; or heterogeneous groups of Jew-haters from both ends of the fence blaming Zionism for the collapse of the world banks; or groups of nationalists screaming to foreign national pedestrians that they are the reason for American jobs being lost and they need to get their (insert insulting racial word) asses out of “their” country.

Spare me. I have too much integrity to disseminate human misery around ideological lines. It’s this sort of deliberate deception that is destroying my nation.

 

[timhau]

Irrelevant, you and the order of the Knights of the Reich-Wing portray it as if only leftist movements have contributed to totalitarianism when a fair share of nationalists, militarists, and religious right movements have caused the same amount of devastation. The pathway to totalitarianism is not leftist+ communism= totalitarianism.

That's not the only pathway to totalitarianism; I haven't seen anyone claim that, either. However, it has always led to totalitarianism.

 

[Virus]

Irrelevant, you and the order of the Knights of the Reich-Wing portray it as if only leftist movements have contributed to totalitarianism when a fair share of nationalists, militarists, and religious right movements have caused the same amount of devastation. The pathway to totalitarianism is not leftist+ communism= totalitarianism. It is, small group of domineering paranoid individuals + the necessary means = totalitarianism. Party lines or ideologies are not included.

And I am sick and tired of individuals like you and wild cat biasedly portraying political ideologies to make it seem as though only a specific political ideology has done harm to humanity in recent history. For Christ sake right-wing movements are responsible for the death of nearly 60 million++ people in the 20th century alone. And left wing movements are responsible for the same if not more deaths. As long as a small group of dumb asses concentrates power into their hands humans will suffer, regardless of political ideology.

So stop portraying it as if only one political ideology harms people. The occupy movement is much more diverse than is being painted in this thread. I can guarantee you of that. And mixed in with all the liberals, communists, and anarchists are groups of right-wing religious fanatics screaming the world is over; or heterogeneous groups of Jew-haters from both ends of the fence blaming Zionism for the collapse of the world banks; or groups of nationalists screaming to foreign national pedestrians that they are the reason for American jobs being lost and they need to get their (insert insulting racial word) asses out of “their” country.

Spare me. I have too much integrity to disseminate human misery around ideological lines. It’s this sort of deliberate deception that is destroying my nation.

Didn't.

 

[WildCat]

And I am sick and tired of individuals like you and wild cat biasedly portraying political ideologies to make it seem as though only a specific political ideology has done harm to humanity in recent history.

Nope, I'm against totalitarianism no matter which wing it belongs to. You'll never see me defend a fascist ideology, but in this very thread here you are defending Marxism.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Nope, I'm against totalitarianism no matter which wing it belongs to. You'll never see me defend a fascist ideology, but in this very thread here you are defending Marxism.

No I am defending an overused term from slander. I would do the same for any ideology regardless to if I liked the principle or not. I've done it several times on this forum and I'll continue to do it.

You shouldn't have made such a generalized statement that was so far from the truth. If you had avoided doing that I would've avoided making a rebuttal. Marxism is NOT the begetter of totalitarianism. Several societies have had systems of common ownership for centuries. However, one key difference between their society and our societies were lack or small emphasis on stratification and social rank. These societies tend to have less concentrated power at the top and have it more evenly spread towards the bottom.

However, communism failed because it did the exact opposite. Many communist societies began to concentrate power and authority in the hands of the few. COMMUNISM did not achieve its ideal because of this concentration in power. Marx himself advocated against this sort of concentration in power because he knew that people would eventually over throw it. Therefore, MARXISM did NOT commit these crimes, other subsets of communism did. Marx advocated for an unrealistically non-stratified society, while other subsets of communist did the opposite and got the opposite results.

The greatest lesson from Marx is not about economics, or communism, or any of that. It is that the concentration of power in the hands of the few always yields bad results.