"Jive" for "Jibe"

[caniswalensis]

Me either. I do think mixing up the two is pretty stupid though. So? We've all made dumb mistakes like this, me included.

I was teasing you about putting it in the wrong forum. Look, a little winky smiley and everything. Please don't cry.


I did answer the question, as have many others. Sorry that you find it frustrating to have a thread moved to where it belongs.

The crying insult is not appreciated either. I don't know why you feel compelled to keep insulting me, but it is not getting you anywhere, I can tell you that.

I agree that I made a poor choice when I created this thread in the History, Literature, and the Arts forum. I believe Social Issues & Current Events would have been a more appropriate choice.

I disaggree that this thread is now in the right forum. It has little to do with the forum community, other than that I wanted input on the topic from other members. If that is the criteria, then every thread should go to FC.

Having said that, I really do not care either way, except for one thing. I have been told by mods that the FC forum has a relaxed moderation style that allows for people to derail threads & fill them up with jokes. I was actually wanting to have a real discussion about this, so I specifically chose not to put it in FC in hopes of keeping it more on the topic, which is how common is it to hear people substitute "jive" for "jibe". That's it, nothing else. I don't mind a few jokes or side bars, but The majority of the posts in this thread (even by mods) do not adress the topic.

...and, because it has been moved to FC, that is perfectly fine with everybody.

 

[slingblade]

I wonder if the start of the expression jibes with originated with the nautical sense of the words.

If two ships are jibing together they are probably on the same sailing point and each time one turns the other turns. In sailboat racing I think jibing with your opponent is a strategy to stay behind him and block some of the wind driving him so that near the finish line you can sail past him driven by unblocked air.

I recall that in "The Writer's Art," James J. Kilpatrick expressed a cynical wish that no one be allowed to use the expression, "by and large," until they could say where it comes from and what it means.

He also had a peeve (or an irk or a crochet) about "remains to be seen," and felt it should be reserved for use in directions to funeral services.

 

[LondonJohn]

Me either. I do think mixing up the two is pretty stupid though. So? We've all made dumb mistakes like this, me included.

I was teasing you about putting it in the wrong forum. Look, a little winky smiley and everything. Please don't cry.


I did answer the question, as have many others. Sorry that you find it frustrating to have a thread moved to where it belongs.

Did you use "me either" ironically?! Because that's another one which a) is not used in UK English (we would always say "me neither") and b) makes no literal sense. After all, it is intended to convey the idea that "I also do not", and therefore requires a negative element to be included. In that context, "me neither" makes sense, while "me either" does not.

By the way (and slightly unrelated), can any US native tell me what rough proportion of US speakers pronounce the word "route" to rhyme with "doubt", as opposed to rhyming with "boot"? I frequently hear both pronunciations by US-English speakers, whereas in UK-English, it always rhymes with "boot" (as also befits its romance/French etymology). Is the "doubt/boot" pronunciation split on demographic lines, or geographic lines, or neither? I'm intrigued!

 

[LondonJohn]

The crying insult is not appreciated either. I don't know why you feel compelled to keep insulting me, but it is not getting you anywhere, I can tell you that.

I agree that I made a poor choice when I created this thread in the History, Literature, and the Arts forum. I believe Social Issues & Current Events would have been a more appropriate choice.

I disaggree that this thread is now in the right forum. It has little to do with the forum community, other than that I wanted input on the topic from other members. If that is the criteria, then every thread should go to FC.

Having said that, I really do not care either way, except for one thing. I have been told by mods that the FC forum has a relaxed moderation style that allows for people to derail threads & fill them up with jokes. I was actually wanting to have a real discussion about this, so I specifically chose not to put it in FC in hopes of keeping it more on the topic, which is how common is it to hear people substitute "jive" for "jibe". That's it, nothing else. I don't mind a few jokes or side bars, but The majority of the posts in this thread (even by mods) do not adress the topic.

...and, because it has been moved to FC, that is perfectly fine with everybody.

Well, it's evolved into a wider discussion of altered/corrupted idioms/phrases and misuse of idioms/phrases. I find that interesting, and it's germane to the OP in my view. It's hardly as if people are posting chicken cacciatore recipes on the thread.......

 

[Rat]

By the way (and slightly unrelated), can any US native tell me what rough proportion of US speakers pronounce the word "route" to rhyme with "doubt", as opposed to rhyming with "boot"? I frequently hear both pronunciations by US-English speakers, whereas in UK-English, it always rhymes with "boot" (as also befits its romance/French etymology). Is the "doubt/boot" pronunciation split on demographic lines, or geographic lines, or neither? I'm intrigued!

I've wondered whether those who pronounce it to rhyme with 'out' pronounce router (the network device) as a homophone of router (the woodworking tool).

And don't get me started on buoy.

 

[davefoc]

I've wondered whether those who pronounce it to rhyme with 'out' pronounce router (the network device) as a homophone of router (the woodworking tool).

And don't get me started on buoy.

For a sample of one:

Router, the network device, and router the woodworking tool rhyme with doubter when I say them. My sense of it is that this is standard around here (Southern California). I also say route so that it rhymes with out but I think I hear both spoken forms of route and I'm not sure which is more common although I lean to the idea that route that rhymes with out is the most common.

I was an electrical engineer and would have used the word, router, many times in the network device sense and I don't remember hearing it pronounced so as to rhyme with rooter even by people from other areas of the country.

I'd be curious about buoy also. I've had my pronunciation corrected a few times and I'm confused as to what is standard and what is correct.

 

[slingblade]

I get my kicks on Roote 66, but my computer's rauhter and the rauhter in my hubby's imaginary workshop rhyme.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

I'd be curious about buoy also. I've had my pronunciation corrected a few times and I'm confused as to what is standard and what is correct.

Boy is proper English English, booee or similar is American I think.

 

[remirol]

Shiver me giblets! Someone's doing the hand gibe!

 

[Rat]

I'm intrigued by the discrepancy. I would think that if one pronounces route as 'root' then the 'rooter' pronunciation would be natural. I suppose it could be that the device managed to permeate homes where people are less computer literate and thus less likely to realize exactly what the device is doing (that is, routing traffic), but already familiar with the word for the woodworking tool. It has been observed that computer terms often have various pronunciations (or at least did in the past), since computer geeks are stereotypically asocial, and therefore more often read new words rather than hear them. I understand that there are people who pronounce SCSI as 'sexy' rather than 'scəzzy', though I am thankfully yet to meet one.

 

[Dicon]

For the record, I do bristle a bit when I hear or read someone using "jive" instead of "jibe," but I tend to let it slide since it's rather minor. On a similar note, I recently saw a post in another forum where the writer was trying to figure out the problem with a piece of a/v equipment. He said something like, "Best I can tell, it's either ABC or XYZ. If it's the former, then XXX, but if it's the ladder..."

Maybe it's because parts of my brain are only five years old, but damn that made me laugh. Still, it wasn't worth correcting him because the post was several months old and the forum did not have a culture of jumping on people's misuse of words. But ladder... something about that is stupidly funny to me.

But whenever I get worked up about word usage, I just remind myself that my stunningly perfect vocabulary is probably brimming with things that would make a 1950s-era English teacher choke on his own vomit.

 

[bigred]

The crying insult is not appreciated either.

Neither are your hissy fits, overly sensitive attitude, and more not worth getting into...all over something extremely trivial.

I agree that I made a poor choice when I created this thread in the History, Literature, and the Arts forum. I believe Social Issues & Current Events would have been a more appropriate choice.

No, because it's not an "issue" or a current event. This one makes the most sense.

Did you use "me either" ironically?!

No, I simply wasn't paying attention. I turned in my grammar nazi card when on message boards quite some time ago and often don't pay much attention to the grammar of my posts either. It's all become too casual and not worth bucking, generally speaking.

can any US native tell me what rough proportion of US speakers pronounce the word "route" to rhyme with "doubt", as opposed to rhyming with "boot"?

Plenty of both, in my experience. I think it used to vary a lot per region, but with people moving all over the place so much now, much of that has been lost.

 

[caniswalensis]

Neither are your hissy fits, overly sensitive attitude, and more not worth getting into...all over something extremely trivial.

Another insult. I don't get you at all.

If it's really trivial to you, why such a need to keep insulting me? I am not going to return in kind, that is for sure. I now realize that you meant the first one to be a funny joke, but it did not seem that way at the time. Maybe if we new each other better, it would have come off as intended. I will say with all sincerity that if in my frustration, I set a tone that was provacative, I am sorry. I have no real problem with you personally other than the insults. I do not like insults. I would much prefer that we get along.

No, because it's not an "issue" or a current event. This one makes the most sense.

I actually agree with you that the problem of where a thread is located is rather trivial, as evidenced in this part of my last post:

Having said that, I really do not care either way, except for one thing. I have been told by mods that the FC forum has a relaxed moderation style that allows for people to derail threads & fill them up with jokes. I was actually wanting to have a real discussion about this, so I specifically chose not to put it in FC in hopes of keeping it more on the topic, which is how common is it to hear people substitute "jive" for "jibe".

When I look in Social Issues & Current Events, there are plenty of threads that deal with questionable topics like driving hybrids & who believes in santa Claus. I think a question about language and communication is as much a social issue as topics like that.

Truly though, if it weren't for that difference in moderation, I wouldn't give a flip. If they are going to force people to put serious threads in FC, they should moderate them in a serious fashion. Since the issue is trivial, I do not understand why the mods are so insistant that a serious question thread will be placed in FC, where it is acceptable to derail it and fill it with one liners. It should be equally trivial to place it in Social issues, or education, where it will be treated more seriously.

 

[caniswalensis]

For the record, I do bristle a bit when I hear or read someone using "jive" instead of "jibe," but I tend to let it slide since it's rather minor. On a similar note, I recently saw a post in another forum where the writer was trying to figure out the problem with a piece of a/v equipment. He said something like, "Best I can tell, it's either ABC or XYZ. If it's the former, then XXX, but if it's the ladder..."

Maybe the equipment was up high?

Dicon, and to everyone else that answered my question before going on to talk about other similar examples, you have my thanks.


I would really like to hear more people confirm or deny having heard 'jive' in place of 'jibe'. If you are reading this, please give me the benifit of your input.

I am not sure why, but that one is of particular interest to me.

Regards, Canis

 

[bigred]

Another insult. I don't get you at all.

If it's really trivial to you, why such a need to keep insulting me? I am not going to return in kind, that is for sure. I now realize that you meant the first one to be a funny joke, but it did not seem that way at the time. Maybe if we new each other better, it would have come off as intended. I will say with all sincerity that if in my frustration, I set a tone that was provacative, I am sorry. I have no real problem with you personally other than the insults. I do not like insults. I would much prefer that we get along.

Observing that you overreacted and have been overly sensitive is not an insult, it's an observation. But this is already too much time spent on this and to your credit thx for defusing and pardon any offense. Moving on

 

[caniswalensis]

Observing that you overreacted and have been overly sensitive is not an insult, it's an observation. But this is already too much time spent on this and to your credit thx for defusing and pardon any offense. Moving on

No problem, and thanks for your apology, too. I agree we should move on.

I will only say by way of explanation that I was referring to the use of the expression 'hissy fits' when I said I had been insulted again. It is a belittleing phrase. I agree that you voicing your opinion that I am overeacting & overly sensitive is not an insult. in fact if you are correct it is useful feedback. I just don't think you are correct. lol

OK, moving on now, but you can comment on my comments if you wish.

Hey pal, have you ever heard someone use 'jive' in place of 'jibe'? What is your opinion of that? Some people seem to think 'jive' is the correct way to say the idiom.

One interesting thing to me about this particular mistake is that it is also easily possible to get the same result by way of typo in printed word. The B & V keys are adjacent on qwerty boards, and spell or grammar check would not catch the substitution.

Probably not all that earth-shaking, but I thought it was kind of cool.

Regards, Canis

 

[bigred]

ever heard someone use 'jive' in place of 'jibe'? What is your opinion of that? Some people seem to think 'jive' is the correct way to say the idiom.

They are clearly wrong. A quick use of a dictionary shows this. But again basically big deal, I've heard far worse and more obvious goofs. If you search on this site I'm sure there are numerous threads with rants about both spoken and written goofs which most young children would catch, like:

"could of" vs "could have"
"anotherwords" vs "in other words"
mixing to/too/two
mixing their/there/they're
mixing your/you're

Maybe my 2 most hated are

definAtely
rEdiculous

But again I have tried hard to hang up my grammar nazi ways, at least online.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Hey pal, have you ever heard someone use 'jive' in place of 'jibe'? What is your opinion of that? Some people seem to think 'jive' is the correct way to say the idiom.

I've never heard it, but it sounds plausible. Like coming down the pike/pipe or buck/butt naked, the alternative makes better sense.

What the hell does gybe(or jibe) with that mean? Even if you know what the sailing maneuver is it's still hard to see how it relates to two ideas fitting together (if two boats don't gybe with each other they collide maybe?), whereas jive with has clear connotations of dancing together or being in harmony with something else. My guess is that's why it's catching on, it sounds like the original and makes more sense so people think it must be right.

 

[caniswalensis]

I've never heard it, but it sounds plausible. Like coming down the pike/pipe or buck/butt naked, the alternative makes better sense.

What the hell does gybe(or jibe) with that mean? Even if you know what the sailing maneuver is it's still hard to see how it relates to two ideas fitting together (if two boats don't gybe with each other they collide maybe?), whereas jive with has clear connotations of dancing together or being in harmony with something else. My guess is that's why it's catching on, it sounds like the original and makes more sense so people think it must be right.

Interesting point. I never considered it that way, because to me, 'jive' always brings to mind untruths. Like in the phrase 'jive talk.'

I while I do associate 'jibe' with sailing, I primarily think of it as just a word to express agreement. I agree it is not clear how the sailing term could have come to mean 'agree.' I guess I can see why someone would get confused.

 

[davefoc]

I've never heard it, but it sounds plausible. Like coming down the pike/pipe or buck/butt naked, the alternative makes better sense.

What the hell does gybe(or jibe) with that mean? Even if you know what the sailing maneuver is it's still hard to see how it relates to two ideas fitting together (if two boats don't gybe with each other they collide maybe?), whereas jive with has clear connotations of dancing together or being in harmony with something else. My guess is that's why it's catching on, it sounds like the original and makes more sense so people think it must be right.

I proposed the idea that the expression might be based on the nautical sense of jibe above. If two boats are jibing with each other they are probably going in the same direction and sailing in a similar manner. If they weren't going in the same direction they would quickly get too far apart for somebody to judge they were jibing with each other and if they are jibing with each other they are also turning at the same time.

My sense of it is that this is a close enough connection to the meaning of the phrase, jibes with, that there's a good chance that derivation of the term is from the nautical use of jibe. My thought is that the expression came into being at a time when sailing lore was more widely known and discussed and as the widespread knowledge of sailing lore declined the expression stayed in the language but lost its association with sailing terminology. Today, knowledge of what the nautical meaning of jibe in the general population is probably much less common than it was 150 years ago.