Jim Fetzer & Conspiracies

I would LOVE to see the computations and images used to "prove" the impact was faked.
Betcha these NEVER get posted!
The purpose being that using those -same- images, what the proper result
would have been, when performed by someone (anyone) who can read and interpret images.
Jack White and Fetzer are NOT qualified to do this.
 
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Considering the documented steel that was collected...................

It wouldn't be too much to ask where you pulled this little tid-bit from?

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm just saying you are sadly mistaken.

I should have added, ". . . in its footprint". With WTC-7, all the floors were falling at the same time, it came down at approximately free-fall speed, and there was a pile of debris equal to about 12% of the height of the original (or 5.5 floors) in its footprint.

With the Twin Towers, they were blowing apart in every direction, being converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust and, when it was over there was no pile of debris (in its footprint). There were completely different. For more, consider:

“9/11 Truth will out: The Vancouver Hearings II”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/12/911-truth-will-out-the-vancouver-hearings-ii/

“Mini Neutron Bombs: A Major Piece of the 9/11 Puzzle” with Don Fox, Clare Kuehn, Jeff Prager, Jim Viken, Dr. Ed Ward and Dennis Cimino
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/29/mini-neutron-bombs-a-major-piece-of-the-911-puzzle/

“Mystery Solved: The WTC was Nuked on 9/11”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/01/mystery-solved-the-wtc-was-nuked-on-911/

“2 + 2 = Israel Nuked the WTC on 9/11”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/08/28/2-2-israel-nuked-the-wtc-on-911/

"Busting 9/11 Myths: Nanothermite, Big Nukes and DEWs” with Don Fox http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/19/busting-911-myths-nanothermite-big-nukes-and-dews/

“The Complete Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/10/03/the-complete-midwest-911-truth-conference-parts-1-2-and-3/

“9/11: A World Swirling in Volcano of Lies”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/14/911-a-world-swirling-in-a-volcano-of-lies/
 
Thorium and Uranium: These elements only exist in radioactive form. Thorium is a radioactive element formed from Uranium by decay. It’s very rare and should not be present in building rubble, ever.


Say what??? Scroll down to "Natural Radioactivity in Building Materials". U and Th are in everything except wood.

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/natural.htm


So once again we have verifiable evidence that a nuclear fission event has taken place



You don't have squat unless you provide an isotropic breakdown of the uranium. Only U-233 and U-235 are fissile and they make up a minuscule proportion of naturally-occurring uranium. Only if the U-235 outweighs the U-238 by a factor of factor 20 would you have evidence of a nuke.
 
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I would LOVE to see the "frame by frame" analysis of the impact that "proves" it is faked.
The actual images used and the dimensions and computations for this.

You can do it for yourself. Take the Hezarkhani or the Evan Fairbanks videos and do a frame-by-frame advance and you will see that, in both cases, the "plane" passes though its complete length into the building in the same number of frames it passes through its complete length in air--the same!

Anyone can replicate this. Since d = r x t, same d and same t equals same r. There is no diminution in velocity, when it should have dropped to zero. The "plane" was intersecting with seven (7) floors in the case of the North Tower, eight (8) in the case of the South, providing enormous horizontal resistance.

Those who insist that an aluminum airliner could effortlessly enter a Twin Tower are simply blowing smoke. They are the kind who would tell you that, if a car is driving really, really fast, it could pass through an enormous tree. I am sorry, but that illustrates the quality of thought that I have found here. See

“9/11: Planes/No Planes and ‘Video Fakery’”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02/20/911-planesno-planes-and-video-fakery/

“Reason and Rationality in Public Debate: The Case of Rob Balsamo”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/0...ity-in-public-debate-the-case-of-rob-balsamo/

"Were the 9/11 crash sites faked?" (Seattle, WA, 13 June 2012):
Part 1
http://archive.org/details/scm-75926-drjamesfetzerinseattlejune1320
Part 2
http://archive.org/details/scm-75938-drjamesfetzerinseattlejune1320

“Fakery and Fraud in the 'Official Account' of 9/11”
http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/jim-fetzers-vancouver-powerpoint/

“9/11 Truth will out: The Vancouver Hearings I”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/07/911-truth-will-out-the-vancouver-hearings-i/

“Fakery and Fraud in the 'Official Account' of 9/11”
http://donaldfox.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/jim-fetzers-vancouver-powerpoint/

“9/11 Truth will out: The Vancouver Hearings I”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/07/911-truth-will-out-the-vancouver-hearings-i/

“The Complete Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/10/03/the-complete-midwest-911-truth-conference-parts-1-2-and-3/
 
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I should have added, ". . . in its footprint". With WTC-7, all the floors were falling at the same time, it came down at approximately free-fall speed, and there was a pile of debris equal to about 12% of the height of the original (or 5.5 floors) in its footprint.

There is that funny definition of 'in its footprint that lets the building rubble block several streets, damage nearby buildings, etc.

With the Twin Towers, they were blowing apart in every direction, being converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust and, when it was over there was no pile of debris (in its footprint). There were completely different. For more, consider:

No pile of debris?! Are you even looking at the same spot as where the WTC was?

Linkfest Gish Gallop fails.
 
Prof. Fetzer, response above raises a number of questions that I am sure you'll be able to anwer:

a. If FBI agents were following a script and planting evidence to suggest that a Boeing 767 crashed into a WTC Building, why are they not using only 767 parts?
b. Why have none of these people had an atack of conscience and confessed to their role in this matter?
c. How many truckloads of aircraft parts were trucked in to the WTC site for people to find and why haven't any of these people come forward?
d. How does scattering plane parts around hide the fact that people saw the planes that hit the WTC buildings and had filmed it?
e. What speed do you calculate the plane had, and why is that speed impossible?
f. Why is the entry of the plane into the buildng impossible?
g. This "recently found peice of landing gear" with rope attached to it - when was it found, and what buildings was it "wedged" in between.
h. This "deception" you are referring to - who is deceiving who? Who benefits?

Well, I discuss most of these in the articles I have linked:

a. They mucked up.
b. They don't want to lose their jobs.
c. Not a lot, it would have been too obvious.
d. They saw what they took to be "planes" but were not.
e. Pilots for 9/11 Truth exposed the excessive speed years ago.
f. Because it displayed no collision effects and violated Newton's laws.
g. You guys really don't pay any attention to anything going outside JREF?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2315518/Plane-fragment-9-11-wedged-Manhattan-buildings.html

Monday, Jul 7th 2014 3PM 71°F 6PM 78°F 5-Day Forecast

Part of landing gear from 9/11 plane is found wedged between luxury condos and Ground Zero Islamic center - 11 years after attacks

Police say the 5-foot piece of landing gear from one of the planes was found Wednesday lodged in a tiny alley just blocks from Ground Zero

Area is being treated like a crime scene and Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters the gear had a rope wrapped around it and may could have been lowered into the 18-inch gap

Medical Examiner will determine whether or not they search for human remains in the alley between the two lower Manhattan buildings

By MEGHAN KENEALLY and JOSHUA GARDNER and SNEJANA FARBEROV

PUBLISHED: 16:05 EST, 26 April 2013 | UPDATED: 02:40 EST, 27 April 2013

Police have found a sizable piece of one of the engines from a plane that crashed into the World Trade Center, more than 11 years after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

The piece of landing gear was found wedged between two buildings just blocks from Ground Zero- in between the buildings at 51 Park Place and 50 Murray Street in downtown Manhattan.

The location is particularly noteworthy because 51 Park Place is the site of the Islamic Cultural Center that stirred up controversy and months of protests two years ago when the site developers wanted to turn it into a mosque.
 
I should have added, ". . . in its footprint". With WTC-7, all the floors were falling at the same time, it came down at approximately free-fall speed, and there was a pile of debris equal to about 12% of the height of the original (or 5.5 floors) in its footprint.

With the Twin Towers, they were blowing apart in every direction, being converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust and, when it was over there was no pile of debris (in its footprint). There were completely different. For more, consider:

“9/11 Truth will out: The Vancouver Hearings II”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/12/911-truth-will-out-the-vancouver-hearings-ii/

“Mini Neutron Bombs: A Major Piece of the 9/11 Puzzle” with Don Fox, Clare Kuehn, Jeff Prager, Jim Viken, Dr. Ed Ward and Dennis Cimino
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/29/mini-neutron-bombs-a-major-piece-of-the-911-puzzle/

“Mystery Solved: The WTC was Nuked on 9/11”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/05/01/mystery-solved-the-wtc-was-nuked-on-911/

“2 + 2 = Israel Nuked the WTC on 9/11”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/08/28/2-2-israel-nuked-the-wtc-on-911/

"Busting 9/11 Myths: Nanothermite, Big Nukes and DEWs” with Don Fox http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/09/19/busting-911-myths-nanothermite-big-nukes-and-dews/

“The Complete Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/10/03/the-complete-midwest-911-truth-conference-parts-1-2-and-3/

“9/11: A World Swirling in Volcano of Lies”
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/14/911-a-world-swirling-in-a-volcano-of-lies/
Wow, Jim. Just like some bot would do it.

I got an email from "Gravy". He said Hi.


wake me when you can act like a human.
 
Mr. Fetzer: you present one unsupported assertion that someone saw someone moving something.

I present the collection of impact video clips:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DoE8Uz2ia3M

Twenty different videos shot from 20 different cameras, angles and distances agree that a massive spinning object left the WTC after impact/explosion at a time consistent with travel time within the building from point of impact. Twenty differnt angles can be extrapolated to arrive at Church and Murray.

But you have one guy who claims to have seen a thingie of some kind or other.

And then we have the other piece of large ejecta that can be seen in those clips. Did your FBI NWO garden gnomes also plant the 100 square foot piece of fuselage on a rooftop? In broad daylight?

Yes, something was ejected, just as something was filmed, but it was not a part of a Boeing 767 and it was not a Boeing 767. And surely you were not taken in by the planted fuselage parts on the rooftop. Do you understand my position on what we see in those videos and why I maintain it?

Do you appreciate that, since we are witnessing impossible events (flying faster than possible at that altitude for a Boeing 767 and entering the building with no collision effects in violation of Newton's laws), we are witnessing some kind of video fakery? I am troubled if you've been taken in.

<SNIP>

You need to watch one of my presentations or read some of my articles, which link or present the work of Pilots for 9/11 Truth.

NOTE: Try "The Complete Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference", Part 2 (which only runs one hour) linked here:
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/10/03/the-complete-midwest-911-truth-conference-parts-1-2-and-3/

<SNIP>

I suggest you check it out.

I explain these things again and again in my articles and presentations, but NO ONE HERE bothers to study them, which is the absurdity of this entire thread: you are attacking my work without knowing my work! I guess that is par for the course here. Practically no one here gives a **** about truth.

Removed breaches of Rule 12 and edited to properly mask profanity in accordance with Rule 10. Please read the Membership Agreement to which you agreed when you signed up here, and abide by it.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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fetzer said:
"Building 7 may be the most robust building built at the hand of man."
Jim Fetzer, you crazy, bro. Please rank the next dozen or so "robust" buildings, in order of robustness.

fetzer said:
Jesse Ventura has a gift for making complex points in a simple way....and he observes that his camping stove, which uses propane, which has a higher temperature than kerosene, yet doesn't melt....
derp derp derp

sheeple ....... lemmings ...... chemtrails ....

:rolleyes:
 
Jim Fetzer, you crazy, bro. Please rank the next dozen or so "robust" buildings, in order of robustness.

derp derp derp

:rolleyes:

Have you paid any attention to the design and construction of these buildings? WTC-7 was erected over a pair of electrical generators providing electricity for lower Manhattan.

The steel used in its construction was solid steel, where even the steel used for the Twin Towers was hollowed out at the center, which provides nearly as much but not quite as much strength.

But for WTC-7, they used SOLID STEEL. I am not making a definitive claim here, but it looks like an accurate appraisal. It was designed to NEVER COLLAPSE. And it took them a long time to prep it.

Those of you who have never watched Barry Jennings talk about his experiences in WTC-7 really need to do that: explosions, dead bodies, a staircase blown out beneath him--all that morning long before 5:20.
 
<snip>

Those who insist that an aluminum airliner could effortlessly enter a Twin Tower are simply blowing smoke. They are the kind who would tell you that, if a car is driving really, really fast, it could pass through an enormous tree. I am sorry, but that illustrates the quality of thought that I have found here.

<snip>


Or if a ping-pong ball was traveling really, really fast it could pass through a ping-pong paddle?

Nah. Couldn't happen.

It would defy the Laws Of Physics™.

Like bumble bees, I guess.
 
Have you paid any attention to the design and construction of these buildings? WTC-7 was erected over a pair of electrical generators providing electricity for lower Manhattan.

So?

The steel used in its construction was solid steel, where even the steel used for the Twin Towers was hollowed out at the center, which provides nearly as much but not quite as much strength.
The wrong in this statement just needs to be quoted.

But for WTC-7, they used SOLID STEEL. I am not making a definitive claim here, but it looks like an accurate appraisal. It was designed to NEVER COLLAPSE. And it took them a long time to prep it.

Again. I can't add anything to this. Can we conclude you claim it was indestructible?

Those of you who have never watched Barry Jennings talk about his experiences in WTC-7 really need to do that: explosions, dead bodies, a staircase blown out beneath him--all that morning long before 5:20.

Jennings was with someone that doesn't agree. His time-line is wrong and I can prove it.


Jim, What year is this?
 
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Have you paid any attention to the design and construction of these buildings? WTC-7 was erected over a pair of electrical generators providing electricity for lower Manhattan.
OK. You said:

Jim Fetzer said:
"Building 7 may be the most robust building built at the hand of man."
Since you claim some expertise in this field, please list the top 10 "most robust" buildings built at the hand of man. Thanks.


The steel used in its construction was solid steel, where even the steel used for the Twin Towers was hollowed out at the center, which provides nearly as much but not quite as much strength.

But for WTC-7, they used SOLID STEEL. I am not making a definitive claim here, but it looks like an accurate appraisal. It was designed to NEVER COLLAPSE. And it took them a long time to prep it.
Wow. A building designed to never collapse. Crazy. Which buildings were designed to collapse at some point? Again, a top 10 list would be welcome.
 
Continuous, unrelenting personal attacks noted and reported.

Based on your inexperienced attempt at identifying jet engines, which lacks foundation.

Based on your uninformed expectations for how impact damage should appear, for which you provide no foundation.

Further expectations leveled without foundation.

A suppositional conclusion drawn from no demonstrable body of fact and no expert foundation.

Cart before the horse. You have not proven the engine was planted. You have noted what, from your lack of foundation, appear to be inconsistencies in the evidence. You have lept to the conclusion that the explanation for those inconsistencies is that the evidence was planted. You explicitly avoid considering or testing any other conclusion, or even your own conclusion.

In fact, your conclusion that the engine was "planted" is supposition based entirely on your uninformed opinion for what you think you should be seeing instead. It's as begged a question as a question can get.

From the supposition that the parts were planted, you infer the existence of operatives to do so, and you display obvious confirmation bias in asserting that the people you say the video shows unloading "heavy equipment" must be those planting evidence.

You assert this as the only rational conclusion, and you completely ignore all the reasons given for why it isn't rational.

No, that is not my argument.

You are the one affirmatively claiming not only that the found footage is relevant, but that the identification of the incident as the planting of evidence is a foregone conclusion. You are the one making affirmative claims while flatly denying any obligation to prove that your analysis is the correct one.

I'm simply disputing your fervent desire to railroad your conclusions through without any sort of critical observation or consideration.

Straw man: I am suggesting no such thing. You beg the question that the engine parts were necessarily planted, hence you propose to limit all my rebuttals to those that can explain that proposition.

I reject the proposition that the engine parts were necessarily planted. Hence I am under no obligation, under the notion of subverted support, to explain "how they got there," or to otherwise explain away the purported actions of FBI agents.

Elaborations in attempting to shift the burden of proof do not make it any more acceptable.

Straw men are usually indefensible because they are constructed by the interlocutor precisely to be so.

My position is simply the null hypothesis. Until proven otherwise, the engines found near the vicinity of a crash site are most likely those from the crashed airplane. Until proven otherwise, the activities of a group of people nearby at an earlier time are most likely unrelated.

For all your bluster in telling everyone within the sound of your voice how irrational, indefensible, and "typical" my arguments are, you manage to avoid addressing a single point in any of them. And you have now completely abandoned your discussion of your Apollo claims. Unlike you, my credibility doesn't seem to rely on having to tell readers how they should interpret the course of the argument. I presume they can see for themselves which of us is the most evasive.

How do you imagine this observation proves any part of your fairy tale?

I don't want to waste a lot of time on this guy, who is one of the worst who posts here while pretending to be superior. We have an engine that is not from a Boeing 767 sitting on an undamaged sidewalk under a steel scaffolding instead of being embedded in the ground.

We have a white van with agents wearing FBI vests unloading something heavy. Since the engine component was planted, someone has to have planted it. We are talking about a simple relationship between effect (the planted engine) and cause (the men in vests planting it).

Given the available evidence, your stance is irrational and indefensible. We are confronted with two hypotheses: (h1) it is an engine from the Boeing 767 that is alleged to have hit the South Tower; (h2) it is a planted engine that did not come from any Boeing 767.

Given (h1), what is the probability that it would be sitting on an apparently undamaged sidewalk, under a steel scaffolding and not even come from a Boeing 767? The answer, of course, is that the probability is zero, which means (h1) is incompatible with the evidence.

Given (h2), what is the probability that it would be sitting on an apparently undamaged sidewalk, under a steel scaffolding and not even come from a Boeing 767? The answer, of course, is that it would be relatively high--if those who were doing this were following a script.

Your position requires that, by the sheerest coincidence, a white van is at the intersection of Church & Murray where men in FBI vests are unloading something heavy. Leave the dolly out of it, since it may have come later. But we clearly have no coincidence but a relation of cause and effect.

No other alternative, such as spontaneous materialization, has any plausibility at all. I recommend you study inference to the best explanation, because your approach has nothing to recommend it. In this instance, you have completely missed the boat. Nice try, but a mediocre attempt to explain way a clear proof of fakery on 9/11.
 
Jim Fetzer, you crazy, bro. Please rank the next dozen or so "robust" buildings, in order of robustness.

derp derp derp

:rolleyes:

Have you paid any attention to the design and construction of these buildings? WTC-7 was erected over a pair of electrical generators providing electricity for lower Manhattan.

The steel used in its construction was solid steel, where even the steel used for the Twin Towers was hollowed out at the center, which provides nearly as much but not quite as much strength.

But for WTC-7, they used SOLID STEEL. I am not making a definitive claim here, but it looks like an accurate appraisal. It was designed to NEVER COLLAPSE. And it took them a long time to prep it.

Those of you who have never watched Barry Jennings talk about his experiences in WTC-7 really need to do that: explosions, dead bodies, a staircase blown out beneath him--all that morning long before 5:20.
 
You can do it for yourself. Take the Hezarkhani or the Evan Fairbanks videos and do a frame-by-frame advance and you will see that, in both cases, the "plane" passes though its complete length into the building in the same number of frames it passes through its complete length in air--the same!

...
.
"into the building". It didn't stop dead at the outside. How odd!
Flying into open structure can be expected to have that result.
The layer of glass the outside is mostly won't do much to slow a large object moving fast, will it, or don't you know?
I'm guessing (very educated guess) you don't have a clue.
 
These guys are not rocket scientists. They were following the script. It would take someone very familiar with engines to detect the mistake, but they wanted it to use as proof for the gullible that a Boeing 767 had hit the South Tower. And I guess, to judge by this thread, they succeeded.
What about the "non-gullible"?

What about the UA mechanics?

The P&W engineers?

Did the perps not care about them?

Why haven't they blown the whistle? Or are you seriously saying that they were

  • in on it
  • killed
  • silenced
  • fearful
  • ignorant of the whole thing
  • gullible and they bought it
  • not caring enough about it
  • ________________________ (fill the blank)
?

Or would they rather see the engine and say "that's not my engine"?

Not buying it.
 
.
"into the building". It didn't stop dead at the outside. How odd!
Flying into open structure can be expected to have that result.
The layer of glass the outside is mostly won't do much to slow a large object moving fast, will it, or don't you know?
I'm guessing (very educated guess) you don't have a clue.

Typical of the slovenly approach that dominates this forum. The amount of glass was less than 1/4 of the facade (deliberately to not over-stress the air conditioning equipment).

The North Tower "plane" was intersecting seven (7) floors and the South eight (8) consisting of steel trusses filled with 4-8" of concrete (or, at 208' a side, about an acre of concrete apiece).

Posting in ignorance seems to be the standard here. I have explained all of this AGAIN AND AGAIN, but no one bothers to study my work. Like you, they just make up what they think I believe and attack that!
 

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