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Jim Bakker is back

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker#Legal_problems

Bakker has renounced his past teachings on prosperity theology, saying they were wrong. In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was in prison, and that it made him realize he had taken certain passages out of context — passages which he had used as "proof texts" to back up his prosperity teachings. He wrote:

The more I studied the Bible, however, I had to admit that the prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of Scripture. My heart was crushed to think that I led so many people astray. I was appalled that I could have been so wrong, and I was deeply grateful that God had not struck me dead as a false prophet![17]
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Is he actually making any money out of this? I hate to think there are people in this world so stupid as to follow him at all.
 
Wouldn't making plans to survive the end times be contrary to God's will? I don't see why a good Christian wouldn't embrace his/her tribulations as being all part of the Almighty plan.
 
Am I mistaken or does Mark 13:28 not say that the end of times will occur within one generation of Jesus' death?
 
GT/CS said:
Am I mistaken or does Mark 13:28 not say that the end of times will occur within one generation of Jesus' death?
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You are not mistaken (except that it is actually two verses later: "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done"), and this is not the only passage that says such things.

The way that some literalists have dealt with an apparent failure of specific prophesy is quite stunning. Approaches include: saying that the end DID come, but that humanity just didn't notice it; arguing that "soon" was in terms of "God time" rather than "human time," with a general correlation of one "God day" being a thousand "human years" (2 Pet. 3:3-8); and creation of the myth of a "Wandering Jew" who is still alive after more than two thousand years, and who will not die until Christ comes.

I do not know which brand of double-talk Jim Bakker endorsed, but my guess is was the "God time" one, despite it being B.S. on many levels.

The most straightforward explanation, that the prediction was flat-out wrong, for some persons seems to be less reasonable than the various preposterous explanations proposed to supplant it.
 
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Brown said:
You are not mistaken (except that it is actually two verses later: "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done"), and this is not the only passage that says such things.

The way that some literalists have dealt with an apparent failure of specific prophesy is quite stunning. Approaches include: saying that the end DID come, but that humanity just didn't notice it; arguing that "soon" was in terms of "God time" rather than "human time," with a general correlation of one "God day" being a thousand "human years" (2 Pet. 3:3-8); and creation of the myth of a "Wandering Jew" who is still alive after more than two thousand years, and who will not die until Christ comes.

I do not know which brand of double-talk Jim Bakker endorsed, but my guess is was the "God time" one, despite it being B.S. on many levels.

The most straightforward explanation, that the prediction was flat-out wrong, for some persons seems to be less reasonable than the various preposterous explanations proposed to supplant it.
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I'm guessing they also try to worm their way around it with this.
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

Isn't the son also the father? How can the son not know but the father can?
 
JJM 777 said:
How can it be "overpriced"? What would be the top limit of "not overpriced"? Other than zero.
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As much as it makes me cringe to defend him in any way, the stuff he's selling isn't trash. It's not a magic paper bag that you breathe into when the end is finally not so darned nigh and actually gets here. Instead this is things like buckets of dried food being sold at a 1000% markup. You can actually use, at least in theory, everything he's selling this time, even without the end times.
 
Brown said:
You are not mistaken (except that it is actually two verses later: "this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done"), and this is not the only passage that says such things.

The way that some literalists have dealt with an apparent failure of specific prophesy is quite stunning. Approaches include: saying that the end DID come, but that humanity just didn't notice it; arguing that "soon" was in terms of "God time" rather than "human time," with a general correlation of one "God day" being a thousand "human years" (2 Pet. 3:3-8); and creation of the myth of a "Wandering Jew" who is still alive after more than two thousand years, and who will not die until Christ comes.
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They usually claim that the words "this generation" does not refer to the disciples of Jesus, but rather some future generation that witnesses the things he describes earlier in the chapter.

Steve S
 
steve s said:
They usually claim that the words "this generation" does not refer to the disciples of Jesus, but rather some future generation that witnesses the things he describes earlier in the chapter.

Steve S
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I have heard that as well.

One I haven't heard well defended:

Revelation 1:1
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
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I am not aware of any place in the bible that would equate 'soon take place' to something over a thousand years later.
 
steve s said:
They usually claim that the words "this generation" does not refer to the disciples of Jesus, but rather some future generation that witnesses the things he describes earlier in the chapter.
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Yeah, forgot about that one. It doesn't hold any more water than the other excuses, because, among other reasons, other verses specify that Jesus spoke of contemporaries. Mark 9:1 says, "And he [Jesus] said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Luke 9:27 is similar. It is the notion that people alive in Jesus's time would see such a thing, that led to the absurd tale of the Wandering Jew.

John 21:20-23 suggests that the Wandering Jew might be "the disciple that Jesus loved," traditionally the author of the Gospel himself. In this Gospel, it is suggested that this particular disciple would not die, a suggestion that Jesus neither confirms nor denies, saying, "If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to you?"

Later mythologists came up with a more anti-Semitic version, and this is the one that "stuck."

The Wandering Jew supposedly got angry at Jesus for stopping in front of his property on Jesus's way to the cross. Jesus, beaten and bloody, supposedly said to this rude and unsympathetic Jew, "I will go, but YOU will tarry until I return." There are quite a few stories that include the Wandering Jew as character or a theme, including (perhaps) a Star Trek episode.

Anyway, the fact that the "future generation" rationale is at least as preposterous as the other supposed rationales seems to be no impediment against many who urge it.
 
Denver said:
I am not aware of any place in the bible that would equate 'soon take place' to something over a thousand years later.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but six verses later, it is made clear that some who participated in the crucifixion itself (which is coming up on the big two-oh-oh-oh anniversary) would see Jesus returning in the clouds.

There are a lot of other verses that indicate that the return will be "soon" or "quickly" or words of like import. By any reasonable definition, and giving the widest reasonable latitude, this deadline has come and gone, and there has been no return. What are we as reasonable people to make of such a thing?

And what are we as reasonable people to make of an individual who sells outrageously priced goods in expectation of an event that ought by its own terms to have occurred by now but did not?
 
By the way, Jim Bakker isn't the only one who is drooling about this rapture nonsense: Second coming could be high-tech: US evangelist.
"The Bible says that every eye is going to see it" and that Christ will "come on the clouds," [Frankin] Graham, the oldest son of preacher Billy Graham, who used the media to make Christian evangelism a global phenomenon, told ABC News presenter Christiane Amanpour, host of "This Week."
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The Reverend Graham is referring to the previously cited Rev. 1:7: "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." Graham carelessly omitted the "they also which pierced him" part, as well as the notion of world-wide suffering. Graham also omitted the author's cavalier attitude to the world-wide suffering, essentially saying, "Oh, well, bring it on."
 
The last time I was at Costco they were selling these 30 day emergency food boxes with all kinds of canned and sealed food to feed a person for 30 days. I thought that was really odd.
 
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