Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories VIII

[Axxman300]

Yes, the Warren Commission in particular, along with many US government agencies downplayed Oswald’s political beliefs, especially his love of Castro. From my reading, that was done out of fear that Cold War tensions would re-ignite to Cuban Missile Crisis levels and also, that Americans (specifically members of Congress and journalists) would start asking questions about why exactly a Castro sympathizer would assassinate JFK.

In other words, was there something that the US government—particularly the CIA and Attorney General Bobby Kennedy—was trying to keep under wraps?

It's not so much that the WC downplayed Oswald's political beliefs as much as they kept them in perspective with the larger fact that the man was a loser. Making him into a Marxist legend is what Oswald would have wanted.

And yes, RFK and the intelligence community needed to keep Operation Mongoose and JMWAVE secret. Poking around the Cuban exile community could have screwed a lot of things up.

 

[tinribmancer]

Saw this video on Youtube:



60 years later and there are STILL JFK nutters, like c'mon...

Someone would've already spilled the beans by now.. :

 

[Axxman300]

Sounds like he spent 20 minutes "researching".

 

[Allen773]

Been reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Threats-Assassination-Attempts/dp/1621572072

Here’s the thing. All Presidents get TONS of violent threats, some more credible than others. The Secret Service is even busier today than in the past with the level of political polarization and number of violent conspiracy theorists (!) out there.

I don’t think any reasonable person could deny that plenty of right-wingers, some anti-Castro exiles, Mafiosos, white supremacists (JFK was pushing the Civil Rights Act in 1963!), Bircher types like General Edwin Walker (who was targeted by one Lee Harvey Oswald), and yes, perhaps a few bitter CIA people mad about Allen Dulles being fired and “the abandonment of the exiles in Cuba” had it out for Kennedy. Some of these people no doubt fantasized about killing him, and a subset might have been actively planning on doing just that. To reiterate: all US Presidents get a lot of violent threats.

Ultimately, though, the simple truth is that Lee Harvey Oswald was the person who killed JFK, and there is no credible evidence that he was a part of ANY conspiracy—Left or Right, foreign or domestic. Regardless of who else was planning on getting Kennedy, Oswald got him first.

 

[Axxman300]

Been reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Hunting-President-Threats-Assassination-Attempts/dp/1621572072

Here’s the thing. All Presidents get TONS of violent threats, some more credible than others. The Secret Service is even busier today than in the past with the level of political polarization and number of violent conspiracy theorists (!) out there.

I don’t think any reasonable person could deny that plenty of right-wingers, some anti-Castro exiles, Mafiosos, white supremacists (JFK was pushing the Civil Rights Act in 1963!), Bircher types like General Edwin Walker (who was targeted by one Lee Harvey Oswald), and yes, perhaps a few bitter CIA people mad about Allen Dulles being fired and “the abandonment of the exiles in Cuba” had it out for Kennedy. Some of these people no doubt fantasized about killing him, and a subset might have been actively planning on doing just that. To reiterate: all US Presidents get a lot of violent threats.

Ultimately, though, the simple truth is that Lee Harvey Oswald was the person who killed JFK, and there is no credible evidence that he was a part of ANY conspiracy—Left or Right, foreign or domestic. Regardless of who else was planning on getting Kennedy, Oswald got him first.

Back in the late 1990s, ABC News aired a 1-hour special about JFK wherein they detailed his many sins. It was hosted by the late Peter Jennings and the underlying statement of the piece was JFK pissed off a lot of people.

Here is the important thing: Killing a President of the United States is a big deal. In 1963 you would end up swinging from a rope when caught. The Mafia knew this, the CIA knew this, anyone else with a grudge against Kennedy knew this.

Unfortunately there is a mythology about JFK, most created by Kennedy loyalists and the Kennedy family, that has twisted the background of the events of his Presidency and has spawned false motives for his assassination. One of the big ones is the myth that JFK was going to destroy the CIA and fire Hoover. Neither is true.

After the Bay of Pigs someone had to fall on their sword, and Dulles knew it and accepted it. After the failed invasion the JFK NSC EXPANDED the CIA's mission set beyond its charter. This included things like reaching out to major news outlets to funnel propaganda, and a doubling of the efforts to remove and or kill Castro. The myth says he was going to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces", but JFK made it bigger and turned it into the monster it became in the 1960s and early 1970s.

All of the alleged and actual threats against his life are tangential to te events of Dallas on November 22, 1963. In the parlor game of the JFK Assassination CT-World nobody has ever successfuly tied Oswald to anyone, nor have they proven a conspiracy.

 

[Hans]

In the parlor game of the JFK Assassination CT-World nobody has ever successfuly tied Oswald to anyone, nor have they proven a conspiracy.

..but they have created a conspiracy to try and create a provable conspiracy by manufacturing 'evidence' and connections that don't exist.

 

[Pacal]

Back in the late 1990s, ABC News aired a 1-hour special about JFK wherein they detailed his many sins. It was hosted by the late Peter Jennings and the underlying statement of the piece was JFK pissed off a lot of people.

Here is the important thing: Killing a President of the United States is a big deal. In 1963 you would end up swinging from a rope when caught. The Mafia knew this, the CIA knew this, anyone else with a grudge against Kennedy knew this.

Unfortunately there is a mythology about JFK, most created by Kennedy loyalists and the Kennedy family, that has twisted the background of the events of his Presidency and has spawned false motives for his assassination. One of the big ones is the myth that JFK was going to destroy the CIA and fire Hoover. Neither is true.

After the Bay of Pigs someone had to fall on their sword, and Dulles knew it and accepted it. After the failed invasion the JFK NSC EXPANDED the CIA's mission set beyond its charter. This included things like reaching out to major news outlets to funnel propaganda, and a doubling of the efforts to remove and or kill Castro. The myth says he was going to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces", but JFK made it bigger and turned it into the monster it became in the 1960s and early 1970s.

All of the alleged and actual threats against his life are tangential to te events of Dallas on November 22, 1963. In the parlor game of the JFK Assassination CT-World nobody has ever successfuly tied Oswald to anyone, nor have they proven a conspiracy.

I like this. The myth of St. John of Kennedy who was also the Son of God sent to Earth to inaugurate the Millennium but the Evil Ones led by the Prince of Darkness - Satan! killed him!! This myth is annoying.

 

[Major Major]

Back in the late 1990s, ABC News aired a 1-hour special about JFK wherein they detailed his many sins. It was hosted by the late Peter Jennings and the underlying statement of the piece was JFK pissed off a lot of people.

Here is the important thing: Killing a President of the United States is a big deal. In 1963 you would end up swinging from a rope when caught. The Mafia knew this, the CIA knew this, anyone else with a grudge against Kennedy knew this.

Unfortunately there is a mythology about JFK, most created by Kennedy loyalists and the Kennedy family, that has twisted the background of the events of his Presidency and has spawned false motives for his assassination. One of the big ones is the myth that JFK was going to destroy the CIA and fire Hoover. Neither is true.

After the Bay of Pigs someone had to fall on their sword, and Dulles knew it and accepted it. After the failed invasion the JFK NSC EXPANDED the CIA's mission set beyond its charter. This included things like reaching out to major news outlets to funnel propaganda, and a doubling of the efforts to remove and or kill Castro. The myth says he was going to "smash the CIA into a thousand pieces", but JFK made it bigger and turned it into the monster it became in the 1960s and early 1970s.

All of the alleged and actual threats against his life are tangential to te events of Dallas on November 22, 1963. In the parlor game of the JFK Assassination CT-World nobody has ever successfuly tied Oswald to anyone, nor have they proven a conspiracy.

I like this. The myth of St. John of Kennedy who was also the Son of God sent to Earth to inaugurate the Millennium but the Evil Ones led by the Prince of Darkness - Satan! killed him!! This myth is annoying.

You forgot that he was going to pull out of Vietnam, end the Cold War, and smash the Military-Industrial Complex. After which the world would enter an age of peace, truth, love, and beauty and everything would be so hip that we would live forever (or so it would seem) . . .

 

[Allen773]

IF JFK was such a threat to the Deep State, why couldn't they leak all of the dirt on him about his horrendous medical condition, his womanizing, or his and his brother's OWN key roles in Mongoose and other CIA covert action (including sabotage of governments and - gasp- assassination of foreign leaders), especially since JFK was up for re-election in ONE YEAR as of November 1963?

Remember, JFK was only in Texas because be had to mend a rift a bitter rift within the Texas Democratic Party (LBJ and Governor John Connally vs. Senator Ralph Yarborough) and he needed Texas in 1964...just as he had needed Texas (and LBJ) in 1960, which had been an extremely close election, after all.

 

[Axxman300]

IF JFK was such a threat to the Deep State, why couldn't they leak all of the dirt on him about his horrendous medical condition, his womanizing, or his and his brother's OWN key roles in Mongoose and other CIA covert action (including sabotage of governments and - gasp- assassination of foreign leaders), especially since JFK was up for re-election in ONE YEAR as of November 1963?

Remember, JFK was only in Texas because be had to mend a rift a bitter rift within the Texas Democratic Party (LBJ and Governor John Connally vs. Senator Ralph Yarborough) and he needed Texas in 1964...just as he had needed Texas (and LBJ) in 1960, which had been an extremely close election, after all.

He wasn't a threat to the Deep State, he embraced it and expanded it.

There was no guarantee he would be re-elected in 1964.

 

[Allen773]

He wasn't a threat to the Deep State, he embraced it and expanded it.

There was no guarantee he would be re-elected in 1964.

I know, I know. My point exactly.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

He wasn't a threat to the Deep State, he embraced it and expanded it.

There was no guarantee he would be re-elected in 1964.

Surely, if the Deep State actually existed, it could guaranty he would be reelected? After all, what's a Deep State for otherwise?

 

[Axxman300]

Biden, it seems, is no better than the last guy. Postponement of the final records release:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...d-to-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-k/

Sec. 3. Temporary Certification. In light of the agencies’ proposals for continued postponement under the statutory standard, the Archivist’s request for an extension of time to engage with the agencies, and the need for an appropriate review and disclosure process, I agree with the Archivist’s recommendation. Temporary continued postponement is necessary to protect against identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement, or the conduct of foreign relations that is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in immediate disclosure. Accordingly, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including section 5(g)(2)(D) of the Act, I hereby certify that all information within records that agencies have proposed for continued postponement under section 5(g)(2)(D) shall be withheld from full public disclosure until December 15, 2022.

Sec. 4. Interim Release. Any information currently withheld from public disclosure that agencies have not proposed for continued postponement shall be reviewed by NARA before December 15, 2021, and shall be publicly released on that date. Out of respect for the anniversary of President Kennedy’s assassination, such release shall not occur before December 15, 2021.

Sec. 5. Intensive 1-Year Review. (a) Over the next year, agencies proposing continued postponement and NARA shall conduct an intensive review of each remaining redaction to ensure that the United States Government maximizes transparency, disclosing all information in records concerning the assassination, except when the strongest possible reasons counsel otherwise. This review shall include documents within the assassination records collection designated as “not believed relevant” by the Assassination Records Review Board established under the Act, but nonetheless placed within the collection by the Assassination Records Review Board.

This is BS.

 

[Allen773]

Biden, it seems, is no better than the last guy. Postponement of the final records release:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...d-to-the-assassination-of-president-john-f-k/



This is BS.

The level of over-classification within the federal bureaucracy is beyond parody. Retroactive classification of things that have been widely reported in the news media, for example.

 

[Axxman300]

They have had almost 30 years to get this done.

NASA went to the moon in under 8 years.

 

[Axxman300]

Ah yes, it's that time of year; the changing colors of the leaves, the chill in the air, and new JFK Assassination conspiracy claims.

Here's yet another "My dad's deathbed confession" stories:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...used-assassin-at-a-secret-cia-camp/ar-AAQ3OIg

Almost 40 years after his death following a bar brawl in Key Biscayne, Ricardo Morales, known as “Monkey” — contract CIA worker, anti-Castro militant, counter-intelligence chief for Venezuela, FBI informant and drug dealer — returned to the spotlight Thursday morning when one of his sons made a startling claim on Spanish-language radio:

Morales, a sniper instructor in the early 1960s in secret camps where Cuban exiles and others trained to invade Cuba, realized in the hours after President John F. Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas in 1963 that the accused killer, Lee Harvey Oswald, had been one of his sniper trainees.

Morales also told his two sons that two days before the assassination, his CIA handler told him and his “clean-up” team to go to Dallas for a mission. But after the tragic events, they were ordered to go back to Miami without learning what the mission was about.

The spolier:

A series of killings, including the death of Morales’ lawyer months before Morales himself was killed “destroyed my family,” his son told the Herald. The family split and scattered all around the country, fearing retaliation.

Morales Jr. currently lives in Michigan. He didn’t say anything before about the Kennedy connection because in the beginning, the family was “scared to death,” he said. Later he thought people would not believe him.

He mentioned the family is now considering a TV deal in connection to his father’s life, but gave no further details.

“It’s an amazing story,” he said. “It seems larger than life.”

Why it's BS:

“When my old man was training in a CIA camp — he did not tell me where — he was helping to train snipers: other Cubans, Latin Americans, and there were a few Americans,” he said. “When he saw the photo of Lee Harvey Oswald [after the assassination] he realized that this was the same character he had seen on the CIA training field. He saw him, he saw the name tag, but he did not know him because he was not famous yet, but later when my father sees him he realizes that he is the same person.”

Nobody wore name tags in those places, if they did they were fake names.

 

[Allen773]

^^^Nice debunking. Well done.

 

[KDLarsen]

Not to mention we know an awful lot about Oswald's time in the period between his return to the US and the assassination. The idea that he could skip off to some CIA camp for a few weeks without notice is absurd.

 

[Axxman300]

Not to mention we know an awful lot about Oswald's time in the period between his return to the US and the assassination. The idea that he could skip off to some CIA camp for a few weeks without notice is absurd.

Yes, exactly, but as they say on TV, "There's more!"

Nothing about Oswald's shooting indicates sniper training.

Snipers were not a thing in 1963, the USMC's modern Scout Sniper School wasn't launched until 1977, and the US Army Sniper School wasn't spun up until 1986. Any training at those camps would have simply been Marksmanship, and that was enough.

Nobody in the CIA, or Cuban Exile Militia groups would have touched Oswald with a 10-foot pole. He was a wannabe. Even the Soviets and the Cuban intel folks saw this as a fact and kept him at arm's length.

 

[Allen773]

The flipside is that, assuming history is any guide, if the CIA or any other intelligence agency (foreign or domestic) tried to assassinate JFK, it would have been incredibly obvious and sloppy and have a high chance of failing outright. Way too risky.

Exhibit A from the JFK era: the many ridiculous and sometimes comical attempts to off Castro. More recently, the poisonings of Russian defectors and the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The culprits were obvious almost immediately and the attempted cover-ups pretty pathetic to be honest.

As I saw someone on social media put it, “a big reason why I don’t believe the CIA was involved in the JFK assassination is that Oswald didn’t miss and fall out of the window of the Book Depository.” Covert operations tend to be clown shoes stuff as much as anything else.