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Moderated JFK conspiracy theories: it never ends III

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Where did I state that I have not read "the actual testimony of the eyewitnesses, the earwitnesses, and the expert testimony ... "?

When you described your method as weighing one expert against another and making an informed decision between them. The only experts you have cited are conspiracy authors and other secondary sources.

Your few days of fringe reset will not avail you. Your allegations of "tampered" evidence fall flat when it becomes apparent you haven't done more to examine the evidence than what has been represented in a secondary source. You should be aware by now that your critics are familiar with the primary sources and have answered your tampering charge.
 
Why are there no initials on the three shells in spite of the sworn testimony from lt Day?

Who says there are no initials on the three shells?

You? Krusch?

That's simply - as has been pointed out to you repeatedly - merely your unproven allegation.

Prove it. Let's see the evidence of no initials on the three shells.

Hank
 
Evidence:His gun(s).
Not according to the official evidence, no.

Hmmm. I can believe the experts, or I can can believe you. Tough call.

The experts say Oswald's handwriting is on the order form for the rifle.
The experts say Oswald's handwriting is on the PO Money Order for the rifle.
The experts say the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano was shipped to Oswald's PO box.
The experts say Oswald's fingerprints are on the trigger guard of the rifle.
The experts say Oswald's palmprint is on the rifle.
The experts say the "Backyard Photos" (BYP) are authentic, and show Oswald in possession of that rifle.

The evidence, therefore, indicates Oswald ordered, paid for, and took possession of the rifle with the serial number C2766. That makes it his rifle, by every standard known to man.

I'm going with the experts on this one, but it was really close (your assertion to the contrary sounds so convincing, all it was lacking was any evidence to support it).

You say the official evidence says otherwise? You are wrong. The official evidence, according to the experts with the skill, background, education and training to interpret it, says it was Oswald's rifle.

The evidence for the revolver is just as airtight.



Shots came from his place of employment.
Yes. Does this make him the shooter? No.

There's the additional evidence of his rifle being found at his place of employment, and a nearly whole bullet being found at Parkland, two large fragments found in the Presidential limousine, and three shells being found at the sniper's nest window, all six pieces of evidence which are **ballistically traceable to his weapon, to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world**. According to those experts. That's what makes him the shooter.



He was in the building at the time.
Says who?

Says LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/programs/transcripts/1205.html

1st REPORTER: Did you shoot the President?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: I work in that building.
1st REPORTER: Were you in the building at the time?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir.


What part of "Yes, sir" to the question "Were you in the building at the time?" don't you understand?

Are you calling Lee Harvey Oswald a liar about this? You already alleged the primary Dallas Crime Lab man responsible for collecting the evidence from the Depository was a liar, so I'm going to ask you to tell us explicitly what you think about Oswald's admission to the television cameras?



Fled the scene.
Left the scene, yes. So did lots of people. Fled? Says who?

Hmmm... let's see. Left his rifle on the sixth floor. Did leave the building within three minutes of the shooting. Did catch a bus to get to his roominghouse. Abandoned the bus and then took a taxi (admitting in custody it was the first time he ever paid for a cab) PAST his roominghouse, walking back. Who takes a cab past their destination, and why? Did take his revolver when leaving the roominghouse, as he admitted in custody. His actions speak strongly of not merely leaving the scene, but fleeing the scene and rather quickly. Can you name one other person who left the Depository building after the shooting, did not try to return, and took two modes of transportation to ultimately go past their residence and arm themselves with a revolver?



Killed a DPD officer who stopped him, tried to kill a second one when they confronted him in the theater.
The so called technical evidence is a joke. The witness line ups are really funny to. "Hm ... who can it be ... maybe the guy with the black eye and trashed dirty T-shirt ... hm ... ?"
There are three different versions of this little incident. Which one do you find particularly convincing?]


You didn't respond to the point. The first impromptu witness lineup of sorts was IN THE THEATRE when the cops asked Johnny Brewer to point out the man he saw acting suspiciously and who sneaked into the theatre. Brewer pointed out the man who, when approached, punched a police officer, drew his weapon on that police officer, and had to be subdued by numerous law enforcement officers. That man who resisted arrest, assaulted a police officer, and attempted murder of a police officer was, of course, Lee Harvey Oswald. What was wrong with THAT impromptu lineup? Brewer could have picked any one of the male patrons out as the man he saw acting suspiciously and who sneaked into the theatre. It was just a coincidence he pointed out Lee Harvey Oswald?

And the weapon removed from the hand of that arrested man was ultimately determined to be the same weapon that shot and killed Officer J.D.Tippit at approximately 1:15pm.

That weapon belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald, and it was taken from his hand in the theatre.

Hank
 
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My scrutiny is on display here. If you find my reasoning faulty or my facts wrong please say so, but be specific and explain in detail why you disagree.

Hilarious.

Please see the previous five pages or so. You know, all those assertions you failed to establish and all those posts you failed to respond to.

Hank
 
The so called technical evidence is a joke. The witness line ups are really funny to. "Hm ... who can it be ... maybe the guy with the black eye and trashed dirty T-shirt ... hm ... ?"

So everyone is clear, eye-witness testimony is only shaky when it contradicts your version of events.


There are three different versions of this little incident. Which one do you find particularly convincing?

I'm going with the accounts of the (at least six) officers who were there, AND THE GUY WHO WAS ALMOST SHOT BY LHO (the guy who was only spared by the webbing of skin between his thumb and forefinger that blocked the hammer from striking home).

This was easy to find: http://time.com/3804560/an-end-to-c...arvey-oswalds-arrest-suggests-why-hes-guilty/


This one was new to me. Why was he scouting locations when he allegedly had a perfect shot from his working place?

Why would a guy who wanted to kill the President want to shoot from a location other than where he worked? Really?


Was he? According to his land lady he was standing at the bus stop waiting for a bus heading at the opposite direction of that of the Tippit shooting?

Uh huh, and how long did he stand there? How was Tippet shot with his gun BEFORE Oswald's arrest in the theater?



Yes, his 12 dollars would take him far far away ...
In 1963? Far enough.


Look, I sympathize, I really do. I spent 25 years as a JFK Assassination retard just like you. It's addictive; the feeling of knowing a secret and thinking you're smarter than everyone else. Or like you're fighting some great battle against an unseen yet omnipresent force of evil. I could close my eyes, stick my fingers in my ears and scream "La la la..." with the best of them. All in the name of a manufactured truth.

...and then I went to Dallas. It was a slap in the face. All of those books and documentaries I'd consumed had lead me to believe that the people doing the "research" and "investigations" knew what they were talking about. I was on the sidewalk in front of the Texas Schoolbook Depository for 20 seconds when I realized all of this people were fools, all of them.

There is no hiding behind the picket fence. A shooter, even in the worst pictures from that day, would have stood out like an elephant under the trees.

Dealey Plaza is an echo chamber. The day I was there the X-Files movie was being filmed, and one of the helicopters flew over, but it wasn't until the bird was directly above that we could tell how many and what direction it was flying. The sound man on Oliver Stone's "JFK" complained about the echo when they were filming there too. So what people heard depended on where they stood that day in 1963. Of all the evidence the sound is the least reliable.

Look, I've been in your shoes a few times in the past when dealing with this case. You think you've found a unicorn. Problem is that those markings weren't deep, and lead is malleable. Those rounds have been handed by countless numbers of folks over the years, and body heat is a better suspect in the vanishing of the markings than conspiracy. It would be easy to test, you just need a spent round, your diamond-tipped inscription doohickey, and a bunch of friends. Just pass your marked test bullet around at a party or bar-b-q and see how well the inscriptions hold up.
 
At the moment I focus on two of the most critical cases of evidence tampering, three empty shells and the "magic" bullet CE-399.


LOGICAL FALLACY known as Begging the Question ... that's where you imbed within your point the very claim you need to prove. You mean to say, removing the logical fallacy, "At the moment I focus on two of the most critical cases of alleged evidence tampering".

You assert as a given the very point that is in dispute. Not the best way to prove your case. In fact, it removes entirely any need for you to prove anything, if you just assume it's true. Right?


... I'm focusing on two of the most critical instances of evidence of tampering with the evidence.


Still the LOGICAL FALLACY known as Begging the Question ... that's where you imbed within your point the very claim you need to prove. You mean "alleged evidence of tampering with the evidence".


... Are you suggesting that I quit doing that and start focusing on other instances of obvious evidence tampering?


Ditto... still the LOGICAL FALLACY known as Begging the Question. No one is suggesting you adopt the logical fallacy of a red herring and change the subject to something else. We're all suggesting you need to prove your assertion, instead of just repeating that assertion as a given.

If you want to truly discuss this, you should stop assuming what you need to prove and start proving what you need to prove.

Anything else is just building a fantasy castle of conspiracy upon your sands of logical fallacies.

We're awaiting that proof. When do you intend to provide it?

Hank

PS: I count three repetitions of the LOGICAL FALLACY of Begging the Question, with no evidence provided to prove any of it. How many repetitions do you count?
 
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No. I have stated that I believe that there was a cover up. But, before I go in to that I have to establish that the 'evidence' in this two particular cases is not the 'evidence' that it is supposed to be.


Yes. Exactly. You understand the issue.

So far you've *alleged* some shenanigans, but haven't provided any evidence of said shenanigans. We're still awaiting that evidence. You've alleged the necessary initials aren't on the evidence, but haven't established that via anything other than simply repeating the assertion. Repeating the assertion doesn't make it more true. We're interested in your supposed proof of the assertion, if you have any.

As you yourself admit, the burden of proof is on you: "I have to establish that the 'evidence' in this two particular cases is not the 'evidence' that it is supposed to be."

But it looks like you're striking out on proving your assertion about the shells and bullet, as well as many others I've looked at.

Hank
 
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My scrutiny is on display here. If you find my reasoning faulty or my facts wrong please say so, but be specific and explain in detail why you disagree.

No, _you_ explain why it's relevant.

No. You belong to the "fringe group"

"Fringe" means "marginal", "minority". I'm not in the minority.

I asked Bez... and no, I'm not the one "working backwards".

If you continue to deliberately misspell my name, you will be reported for breach of your membership agreement.
 
As i said before, I was not aware of it until it was pointed out to me. I apologize and will do my best to get it right from now on.

Maybe you could start doing your best to respond to the criticisms your arguments have already been getting, such as your lack of evidence to support any of your claims or allegations.

You know, instead of continuing to run away from them.
 
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