Jews and Jesus

[catsmate]

I've never heard of them. I doubt if the vast majority of other people today have either. Yet the vast majority of people have at least heard of Jesus, and even if they do not themselves believe that he was the Messiah, they certainly have to be aware that there are a great many people who do.

It seems to me that you've disproven whatever point it was you were trying to make.

Whether or not you've heard of them isn't relevant; my point was that several other false messiahs better matched the criteria for the Jewish messiah than Jesus.

 

[HansMustermann]

It seems to me that you and I are defining “success” rather differently. You're hung up on a very short-sighted notion of success, limited to what he personally gained for himself during his brief time among Mankind. To me, his success is not limited to that brief moment of human history, nor to his own experience and what was in it for him; but to the effect that he has had—and continues to have—on nearly all human history, for thousands of years thereafter.

Actually, it seems to me it's you who is trying to equivocate it in a direction that's irrelevant for the thread.

1. Jesus was a success eventually among GENTILES, who didn't much care about the Jewish requirements for a Messiah.

2. Among the JEWS, which is the topic here, Jesus was provably much less successful than two dozen other messiah claimants.

Even Sabbatai Zevi got more followers as a Messiah, and that one converted to Islam and started preaching Islam, which is, you know, pretty much the worst Messiah ever. It's Messiah Epic Fail. On a scale of what not to do to ruin your job qualification, it ranks up there with a porn actor castrating himself

Even taking DOC's unsupported delusions about a couple thousands of Jews converting to Jesus (but apparently forgetting to tell anyone to write about that, or to do anything worth mentioning, etc), that's peanuts compared to other Messiah pretenders. The guys mentioned DID get more JEWS to follow them than Jesus.

Plus, really, even going by DOC's delusions and trusting the Gospels and Acts, we have to conclude that after Jesus and his followers performed miracles in a city of 30,000-50,000 people (the estimate for Jerusalem in the 1st century CE), plus all over three provinces, and pulled a resurrection, and got... what? A couple thousand converts? (Again, that's unsupported, but I'm taking DOC's word for ad absurdum sake.) People who didn't perform any miracles got more followers than that.

 

[pakeha]

...All the 12 apostles (and Paul) were all Jewish. ... Luke (a man called a great historian regarding non-supernatural events by Sir William M. Ramsay)... the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many. If you believe what the bible says, there is no doubt about it, something very big was happening in Jerusalem around the the time of the death and resurrection of Christ.

Classic DOC. Classic.

And yet, two thousand years later, it is clear who, among the claimants that you've mentioned, has been by far the most successful at being recognized as the Messiah.

And?

 

[Leumas]

Even Sabbatai Zevi got more followers as a Messiah, and that one converted to Islam and started preaching Islam, which is, you know, pretty much the worst Messiah ever. It's Messiah Epic Fail. On a scale of what not to do to ruin your job qualification, it ranks up there with a porn actor castrating himself

 

[Resume]

It seems to me that you and I are defining “success” rather differently. You're hung up on a very short-sighted notion of success, limited to what he personally gained for himself during his brief time among Mankind. To me, his success is not limited to that brief moment of human history, nor to his own experience and what was in it for him; but to the effect that he has had—and continues to have—on nearly all human history, for thousands of years thereafter.

You seem to be neglecting a rather large chunk of the globe that doesn't care a whit about the dude.

 

[Soapy Sam]

You seem to be neglecting a rather large chunk of the globe that doesn't care a whit about the dude.

And a lot of folks who live in the chunk that supposedly does.