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Jew Haters and Nazi Apologists

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Walter Ego

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Walter Ego
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Or as they commonly known... Holocaust deniers (I will not use the hygienic euphemism "historical revisionists". Real historians revise history all the time for legitimate reasons.)

What other motives could there possibly be for this odious cultural vandalism?

For those of you who are not antisemites or Hitler cuddlers, should we be validating these people by engaging them in debate or even giving them the snarky ridicule they deserve?

I'll admit I stopped reading this forum when the denial and Hitler apologetic threads began to dominate the board (and there are several cresting right now).

Would it be out of line to request of the mods that a new sub forum be created to put a cordon sanitaire around the deniers and those who wish to pay footsie with them?
 
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If what you want is a new subforum, you should probably take it up in Forum Management.

I agree with you that it's not worth engaging these people. It'll only make you angry and frustrated. Best not to even open the threads IMHO. Even sillier is when non-holocaust-deniers start a thread on holocaust denial to challenge holocaust deniers to a debate.

A troll can only upset you if you give them permission. Also, there's an ignore feature you can use.
 
Walter Ego said:
Or as they commonly known... Holocaust deniers (I will not use the hygienic euphemism "historical revisionists". Real historians revise history all the time for legitimate reasons.)

What other motives could there possibly be for this odious cultural vandalism?

For those of you who are not antisemites or Hitler cuddlers, should we be validating these people by engaging them in debate or even giving them the snarky ridicule they deserve?
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Someone always wants to set the record straight when there's another lie or distortion of the truth.

Walter Ego said:
I'll admit I stopped reading this forum when the denial and Hitler apologetic threads began to dominate the board (and there are several cresting right now).

Would it be out of line to request of the mods that a new sub forum be created to put a cordon sanitaire around the deniers and those who wish to pay footsie with them?
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As Puppycow already noted, this discussion belongs in FM. IIRC, it already has been discussed, and the opinion was that the volume is not (yet) big enough for an own subforum. Peruse that section and find an old thread or start a new one.
 
Puppycow said:
If what you want is a new subforum, you should probably take it up in Forum Management.

I agree with you that it's not worth engaging these people. It'll only make you angry and frustrated. Best not to even open the threads IMHO. Even sillier is when non-holocaust-deniers start a thread on holocaust denial to challenge holocaust deniers to a debate.

A troll can only upset you if you give them permission. Also, there's an ignore feature you can use.
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Oh, believe me, I have most of these clowns on ignore. (I have a zero tolerance policy for racism and Jew bashing... one strike and you're out.) I would just ask the other members of this forum to show some restraint before giving these slugs their jollies by replying to them.

Or ... before posting use another nice feature we have, namely, find other posts by... (click on the user name on any post). If all the posts from that user are about The Jews TM or of the "did the Nazis get a bad rap for WW2?" variety consider moving on.

I'll be the first to admit, however, I haven't always followed my own advice. :o
 
While I don't consider myself a Jew hater or a Nazi apologist, I feel a comment from me could help.

1. I don't care if you call me a denier or a revisionist. Call me anything you like, just don't call me late for lunch.

2. JREF advertises itself as a place you can discuss any subject that is excluded from the hegemonic knowlege-power continuum - for want of a more robust framework and description of JREF's mission. Politely I repay this kindness by refraining from posting in the History section and posting in conspiracy which is wall to wall illuminati. What could be more respectful that that?

For why somewhat might think revising or denying might be in order. I respectfully submit Exhibit A.

http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.c...lution-to-the-mystery-of-elie-wiesels-tattoo/
 
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little grey rabbit said:
[spam of bloglink removed]
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You know, I don't think you get many link-backs to your blog just because you spam it here. I'm not especially technically savvy, but in my experience, larger forums either disallow link-backs in order to stop spammers like you, or they give one single link-back.

Your blog is in your signature. Please stop spamming the link.
 
Walter Ego said:
Oh, believe me, I have most of these clowns on ignore. (I have a zero tolerance policy for racism and Jew bashing... one strike and you're out.) I would just ask the other members of this forum to show some restraint before giving these slugs their jollies by replying to them.

Or ... before posting use another nice feature we have, namely, find other posts by... (click on the user name on any post). If all the posts from that user are about The Jews TM or of the "did the Nazis get a bad rap for WW2?" variety consider moving on.

I'll be the first to admit, however, I haven't always followed my own advice. :o
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I think it is in the nature of this forum that posters will respond to any kind of crank viewpoints on the world.

If someone posts in favour of Creationism, then forum members will respond. If they post on 9/11 Truth, people will respond and if someone posts to say they don't think the Holocaust was real then, of course, people will respond.

Part of the problem is not simply that Holocaust deniers are motivated by anti-semitism but that quite reasonable people may become convinced by a viewpoint that isn't rebutted. If you try to outlaw a particular type of speech or opinion then its proponents will argue that it is only outlawed because nobody has an answer to it and for some suppressed speech becomes attractive because of its suppression.
 
uke2se said:
You know, I don't think you get many link-backs to your blog just because you spam it here. I'm not especially technically savvy, but in my experience, larger forums either disallow link-backs in order to stop spammers like you, or they give one single link-back.

Your blog is in your signature. Please stop spamming the link.
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I was trying to help my new friend Walter understand why one might deny the Holocaust but still not hate Jews. The link I gave was one where I specifically praised the courage of a Jewish survivor who had denounced Elie Wiesel.

Walter this is a very interesting blog you have
__________________
Visit My 9-11 Video Blog
Visit My YouTube Channel
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Thank you for bringing it to my notice.

Angrysoba, my you certainly are an innovative thinker
__________________
http://angrysoba.blogspot.com/

"what about Israel?" - Thunder
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I very much enjoy reading your thoughts. Keep 'em coming!
 
Just a thought, LGR: Considering the voluminous amount of evidence that exists which supports the reality of the Holocaust, including the horrific amount of documentation the Nazis left behind, and the explanations of why they did it, I'm a little stumped as to how anyone can claim to support the Jews and yet deny the Holocaust. (This is particularly vicious when you consider that the Jews themselves have pointed out that in denying the Holocaust, you're also denying the multiple other victims of the Nazi atrocities, including the Gypsies, the mentally ill, the elderly, the politically inconvenient, the intelligentsia, the artists, and so on.)

Not that I'm going to wait around for you to answer this one.

Welcome to ignore.
 
angrysoba said:
Part of the problem is not simply that Holocaust deniers are motivated by anti-semitism but that quite reasonable people may become convinced by a viewpoint that isn't rebutted. If you try to outlaw a particular type of speech or opinion then its proponents will argue that it is only outlawed because nobody has an answer to it and for some suppressed speech becomes attractive because of its suppression.
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I do think Holocaust denial should be rebutted and I no where did I say that Jew Haters and Hitler lovers shouldn't enjoy free speech. (I think the "hate speech" prosecutions abroad are vile and am glad we have the 1st Amendment in the U.S.)

I was just asking if this forum becomes clogged with trolling posts from Hitler enthusiasts and Jew Haters (the term I prefer... "antisemite" is too genteel), should those discussions be spun off into their own subforum.

Apparently from the reply above from ddt it's not thought to have reached that level yet, but in the interim maybe we can exercise a little discretion before we reply.

All in all, a modest proposal I would think.
 
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Walter Ego said:
Or as they commonly known... Holocaust deniers
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many Neo-Nazis do not deny the Holocaust..and not only wish it had succeeded but hope it will be repeated.

And yes, we should challenge their lies with truth.

Anyone who is legitimately on the fence about the actuality of the Holocaust, can come to JREF and get all the facts they need to learn the ugly truth: that the Holocaust did indeed occur and millions of innocent Jews were murdered during WW2.

how is this a bad thing?

if the sight of Holocaust deniers spewing their garbage bothers you that much, go to another sub-forum.
 
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Walter Ego said:
I do think Holocaust denial should be rebutted and I no where did I say that Jew Haters and Hitler lovers shouldn't enjoy free speech. (I think the "hate speech" prosecutions abroad are vile and am glad we have the 1st Amendment in the U.S.)
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Oh, I see. I understood this sentence to mean that we shouldn't reply to Holocaust deniers even to rebut them as it might encourage them:

For those of you who are not antisemites or Hitler cuddlers, should we be validating these people by engaging them in debate or even giving them the snarky ridicule they deserve?
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It is certainly a criticism that is sometimes made to those who do engage anti-Holocaust deniers such as Michael Shermer or the Nizkor Project

In fact, I am still a little confused about what you want the forum users to do.

But I agree with you that there are too many Holocaust denial threads. Perhaps it would be a good idea to have the moderators merge some of the Holocaust denial threads.
 
little grey rabbit said:
I was trying to help my new friend Walter understand why one might deny the Holocaust but still not hate Jews. The link I gave was one where I specifically praised the courage of a Jewish survivor who had denounced Elie Wiesel.

Walter this is a very interesting blog you have.
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Oh my, oh my, but you're a sly little bugger! You clicked on my blog and I should click on yours, eh? Sorry, toots , but no dice.

Since I caught the drift of your con, however, you shall henceforth (to quote Gravy's famous words) "be known to me only only through quotations."

No hard feeling, though, and, as a nice parting gift, since you liked my video blog, here's some more vids that didn't quite fit in with my blog topic of 9/11 that you can watch in your spare time.... which I'm sure you have plenty of.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=654178281151939378#

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/186164-1

http://buddhaglass.blogspot.com/2011/01/conspiracy-wannsee-conference.html
 
I have yet to see or hear a Holocaust-denier who did not also hate Judaism, Jews, Israel, etc etc.
 
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Thunder said:
many Neo-Nazis do not deny the Holocaust..and not only wish it had succeeded but hope it will be repeated.

And yes, we should challenge their lies with truth.

Anyone who is legitimately on the fence about the actuality of the Holocaust, can come to JREF and get all the facts they need to learn the ugly truth: that the Holocaust did indeed occur and millions of innocent Jews were murdered during WW2.

how is this a bad thing?

if the sight of Holocaust deniers spewing their garbage bothers you that much, go to another sub-forum.
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How did I know you'd show up? :D

Some of the recent threads here (like that "Did The Nazis Get Railroaded at Nuremberg" thread, the instigator of which couldn't believe all the "fuss" he'd created) don't even belong on a CT forum (though you could spin it as a Allied conspiracy to sully the good name of Nazi Germany, I suppose.)

And what kind person could be "legitimately on the fence about the actuality of the Holocaust"? :confused: A stupid teenager or an ignorant adult, perhaps, but it's not my job to correct their misconceptions. And, though I know you're not that naïve, none of the threads I'm talking about were started by people "legitimately on the fence about the actuality of the Holocaust."

No, I'm not "bothered" by Holocaust denial threads but I don't live for them either.
 
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Walter Ego said:
No, I'm not "bothered" by Holocaust denial threads but I don't live for them either. (Which I think you, in a perverse way, do.)
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excuse me??????

you have some nerve, considering the vast minority of my time at JREF is spent in Holocaust denial threads.
 
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Thunder said:
excuse me??????

you have some nerve, considering the vast minority of my time at JREF is spent in Holocaust denial threads.
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I thought better of that parenthetical remark and redacted it but not, unfortunately, before you saw it.

Please accept my humble apology. :o
 
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