• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

"Jesus Camp"

pgwenthold

Penultimate Amazing
P
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
21,821
This message could go almost anywhere in the forum, but P,CE,and SI is probably as good as any.

Rachel Maddow this morning discussed a documentary at the current movie festival in NY called "Jesus Camp." It is about a "bible" camp in North Dakota that is indoctrinating young (as in 4, 5, and 6) year olds to be militant christians.

Despite the source (Air America), it is clear that this characterization is not a great distortion. The comment from the pastor doing this was something like, "We want to instill a radical dedication to christianity, like how arab children are dedicated to Islam. Of course the difference is, we have the truth."

Not a perfect quote, but the "radical" part was definately her (the pastor's) description, not mine.

The crux: they are teaching kids to be willing to kill or die for Jesus.

They do things like dress the kids up in camouflage with grease paint on their faces.

This isn't just about religion, though. It is about politics. They aren't just learning the bible, they are being drilled about all the evils of secular society, including abortion, homosexuality, and Harry Potter, and how it is their responsibility to fight these activities.

Yes, Harry Potter. They played a clip where the pastor is ranting about Harry Potter being evil, and you hear these kids saying, "amen!"

And they are all of 5 years old.

Most people see these stories of islamic kids being indoctrinated as terrorists and cringe at the thought. These folks embrace the thought, and say, we need to do that with christians.

Right here in the US.
 
Last edited:
ImaginalDisc said:
I notice a resemblence between this group, and some Hamas camps.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/31/HAMAS.TMP

Oh, please IPU, don't let his spark an Israeli/Palestine discussion.
Click to expand...
The main differences being that:
  • In the U.S., groups like this are considered so weird that when you hear about them, they make news; in the middle east, they are so much the mainstream that when you hear about Muslim schools that teach peace and tolerance for other religions, that's considered newsworthy.
  • In the U.S. if a group like this ever actually murdered someone over religion, everybody and my cats would condemn them as monsters, and the full weight of the U.S. criminal justice system would come down on them faster than they could say, "Holy #$%!". In the middle east, OTOH, they'd have streets named after them.
Nice attempt to draw moral equivalency, though, pgwenthold.
 
BPSCG said:
Nice attempt to draw moral equivalency, though, pgwenthold.
Click to expand...

The differences you pointed out between the two groups of militant extremists only indicates that some Islamic extremist group have been more scucessful. In terms of pure craziness, they're locked in a dead heat.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
The differences you pointed out between the two groups of militant extremists only indicates that some Islamic extremist group have been more scucessful.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Militant extremists don't exist in some kind of societal vacuum. The differences I pointed out between the groups indicates that some societies have zero tolerance for murder, and punish it harshly, while others celebrate it, encourage it, and subsidize it.
 
BPSCG said:
Nonsense. Militant extremists don't exist in some kind of societal vacuum. The differences I pointed out between the groups indicates that some societies have zero tolerance for murder, and punish it harshly, while others celebrate it, encourage it, and subsidize it.
Click to expand...

What? Extremists who fill small children's heads with militant non-sense are just as bad, whatever goals they may have achieved in the past.

Chrisitan extremist lunatics aren't better than Islamic extremist lunatics, they're just less common.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
The differences you pointed out between the two groups of militant extremists only indicates that some Islamic extremist group have been more scucessful.
Click to expand...

Or, as I pointed out, just have a head start.

Perhaps if someone had stood up and nipped the formation of the muslim camps 20 years ago, there wouldn't be the problem there is today.
 
pgwenthold said:
Or, as I pointed out, just have a head start.

Perhaps if someone had stood up and nipped the formation of the muslim camps 20 years ago, there wouldn't be the problem there is today.
Click to expand...

Islamic militant extremism, like Christian militant extremism or Communist militant extremism is in a historical decline. We've just set aside a lot of the extremism faster than they have in the Middle East.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Islamic militant extremism, like Christian militant extremism or Communist militant extremism is in a historical decline. We've just set aside a lot of the extremism faster than they have in the Middle East.
Click to expand...

Allowing the very young to be indoctrinated with the mentality is a good way to slow down the decline.

In fact, it is probably the key to keeping it alive in modern times.
 
BPSCG said:
The main differences being that:
  • In the U.S., groups like this are considered so weird that when you hear about them, they make news; in the middle east, they are so much the mainstream that when you hear about Muslim schools that teach peace and tolerance for other religions, that's considered newsworthy.
  • In the U.S. if a group like this ever actually murdered someone over religion, everybody and my cats would condemn them as monsters, and the full weight of the U.S. criminal justice system would come down on them faster than they could say, "Holy #$%!". In the middle east, OTOH, they'd have streets named after them.
Nice attempt to draw moral equivalency, though, pgwenthold.
Click to expand...
These examples show no differences between the groups. merely differences in the societies they are formed in.
 
Sure the groups are similar and can exist anywhere. However, there's probably local and federal authorities monitoring their actions.

What do you want to do about those groups, though?
 
Somewhat related, a show from This American Life, with the theme of "summer camp". One particular small segment, found here at the 21:18 minute mark, is a amusing anecdote from someone's experience as a youth in a "left wing Zionist" summer camp. The whole hour long show is amusing and worth listening to. I particularly liked the song with the Hitler reference. :D
 
shecky said:
Somewhat related, a show from This American Life, with the theme of "summer camp". One particular small segment, found here at the 21:18 minute mark, is a amusing anecdote from someone's experience as a youth in a "left wing Zionist" summer camp. The whole hour long show is amusing and worth listening to. I particularly liked the song with the Hitler reference. :D
Click to expand...

That was a pretty good one.

Where do you get those?
 
BPSCG said:
Nonsense. Militant extremists don't exist in some kind of societal vacuum. The differences I pointed out between the groups indicates that some societies have zero tolerance for murder, and punish it harshly, while others celebrate it, encourage it, and subsidize it.
Click to expand...

And you don't think that can happen in America? You don't think that if given enough time, money, and effort the Christian Right can not turn the U.S. into a society that celebrates, encourages, and subsidizes murder, albeit in the name of Jesus rather than Mohammed?

This little camp is a step in that direction.
 
Mark A. Siefert said:
And you don't think that can happen in America? You don't think that if given enough time, money, and effort the Christian Right can not turn the U.S. into a society that celebrates, encourages, and subsidizes murder, albeit in the name of Jesus rather than Mohammed?

This little camp is a step in that direction.
Click to expand...

Goodness, Christianty is religion of peace! No Christian would ever use the government to murder and....wait, what's that place called where Christian extremists took over the government?

memoriab6zk.jpg


P.S. Why wait until 1992 to put up a memorial? Were they waiting to make sure they weren't witches?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom