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JEROME - Black holes do not exist

Upchurch said:
Easy, but first you need to understand how we control other semi-fundamental forces.

We can magnetize objects by applying an electrical current. We can stop the magnetic force by removing the current. The strength of the magnetic force depends (all other things being equal) on the strength of the current.

Likewise, we can start a gravitational force by introducing mass to the system. We can stop gravitational force by removing mass from the system. The strength of the gravitational force is proportional to the amount of mass.

We control the amount of gravity in the space shuttle by strictly controlling the amount of mass contained in it.
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Your analogies are false, you are not controlling the force that is called gravity. You are manipulating the objects in relation to one another.
 
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Upchurch said:
You mean by manipulating objects called atoms and molecules? :D
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apples2oranges.jpg
 
JEROME DA GNOME said:
Please Paul, how does one measure the force of gravity?

Not the relationship of objects to one another, the force of gravity.
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Ah , Jerome, why do you insist on this? How do you measure the force of your arm? By it effects on other objects, mainly weights and springs. How do you measure tidal force? By its effects on sea ocean level. How do you measure centripetal force? By its effects on satellites. Force cannot be sensed without noting its effects on objects; it makes no other intrusion upon our environment. We can roughly sense forces acting upon our skin's pressure sensors, but that's as close as we can get o the true essence of any force, and even then it is our skin that is the object. In the same way, we cannot measure temperature except by the expansion it causes in materials, or in our skin. We use our gauge of gravity every time we plot the arc of an artillery shell, or the orbit of a comet. No, we know of no way to control it, to channel it or deflect or absent it from where ever it might be.

What does it mean, "is it really a force"? Since we can only tell a force is operating by how it affects objects, and if it duly affects objects - no matter how - them how might it not be a force? Even if it is theoretically space-time curvature, how is it not a force, and why the angst about it's "true" nature, as if it were trying to deceive us? You are certainly free to limit your personal knowledge to some philosophically bare space, but pardon us if we disagree to live there with you.

We think we may have a theory of how gravitation works, in a manner similar to how we know how electromagnetism works. But we haven't verified it; we haven't yet unequivocally met a real, identifiable graviton. When we do, if we do, we will have a deeper understanding by studying this graviton, but can we then say "we know how it works"? I think not in any absolute sense. Perhaps that will never be possible.

So what?
 
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JEROME DA GNOME said:
You control the force by using the force to manipulate objects. In the case of gravity you are only manipulating objects.


Can you not honestly see the difference?

:boggled:
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Give me an example of a force that you directly control without manipulating an object(s) that the force acts upon. Just one would do.
 
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JEROME DA GNOME said:
[goalposts]
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Aren't you the one who is claiming that we control forces directly and not by manipulating the objects on which the forces act?

If not, please specify what you mean about controlling a force. And also feel free to give me an example of one that you consider that we can control.
 
I dunno why you folks bother. Willful invincible ignorance. Just ignore him.
 
Manipulation of gravity is a trivial act on the par with what school children do. The process of creating gravity waves requires changing the mass in a region of space. Actually creating new mass is impossible (despite the popular E=MC2 which doesn't actually create mass but only converts energy into matter). However, a micro black hole can be given a charge which then allows it to be easily manipulated. If this micro black hold is moved at relativistic speed its apparent mass will increase in the direction of motion. Although this is on par with child's play, children are never allowed to play with black holes because of the unstoppable devastation that would result if one were to escape captivity.
 
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JEROME DA GNOME said:
Gravity is the term we use to explain a supposed force which we can not measure or control.
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From this response, I can only conclude one of two things about Jerome:

1. He has never fallen down in his life, or

2. he has fallen down entirely too much in his life, most likely many times on his head.
 
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