Jehovah's Witness

Marian said:


Telling them that you've been 'disfellowshipped' stops them too, or used to. I don't know if they still use that term for people they've tossed out.
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Apostate perhaps. The JW's are particularly nasty to former members.

I intend, one day, to have carefully constructed and rehersed arguements against all forms of nonsense. I don't wish to be rude, just well informed.

I know a JW, and I had the idea aeons ago to subtly tempt them away from their faith and into the dark endless pit of Satan! err... skepticism, because I consider them to be very intelligent, or at the least dedicated and hard working, but I gave up after very little effort was applied.

Weak resolve, that's all. I have a lot of plans that never come to anything. They aren't obnoxiously into it, and I have a genuine concern (i.e. I'm not just rationalizing my lack or resolve) that any effort on my part to change them to apostate status would leave
a) them to the abuse of the JW's
and as a negligable nagging deatail:
b) me responsible.

And that's why nothing ever gets done by me!
 
From the JH tract called, “What does God Require of Us?”

“Trinity: Is Jehovah a Trinity- three persons in one God? No! Jehovah, the father, is the one true God. The Holy Spirit is not a person, but God’s active force”

--Whoa! This differs quite a bit from the ‘true’ religion I grew up learning about. Those wacky JWs.

“Birthdays: The only two birthday celebrations spoken of in the Bible were held by persons who did not worship Jehovah…The custom of celebrating birthdays comes from ancient, false religions.”

--So omission of mention of celebration is tantamount to sin?!? So if the Bible omits mentioning a particular event, is that event assumed to be sinful?

“Christmas and its customs come from ancient false religions…The same is true of Easter customs. The earlier Christians did not celebrate Christmas or Easter, and neither do True Christians today.”

--So much for the reason for the season.

“Cross: Jesus did not die on a cross. The symbol of the cross comes from ancient, false religions.”

--I guess wearing crucifixes are straight out, then.

“Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood…So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion…They want to live, but will not try to survive by breaking God’s laws.”

--Never mind that pesky relationship between mother and child in utero.
On the same topic:

“If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it must not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be properly bled.”

--I grew up on a farm, we butchered our own animals. I am very familiar with bleeding them out. This does not mean that there is an absence of blood in the carcass, far from it! It seems if JWs really wanted to please God, they’d be vegetarians.

Summary points of what it takes to be a “True Christian”.

“The outstanding mark is that they (Christians) have love amongst themselves.”

--So much for love thy neighbor if that neighbor happens to be anything other than a true Christian!

“”They do not share in wars.”

--The Inquisition! What a show!

“They have a deep respect for the Bible.”
“Honor God’s name by making it known.”

--Go out and knock on doors, folks!

“True Christians must preach about God’s Kingdom.”

--See above.

“They must be *no part of this wicked world*. They do not get involved in the world’s political affairs and social controversies.”

--Yes! Bury your head in the sand, don’t stick up for those in need, and for God’s sake: DO NOT VOTE!!!
Wait a sec…what about the whole personal relationship w/ Jesus Christ? If you’re a JW, you don’t need no stinkin’ relationship!
Bottom line, according the JW, I fail miserably at the task of being a True Christian and to paraphrase someone else, I’m going to be a choice log for the flames of Hell. Anyhoo, that’s the JWs credo, cliff notes style. Some of this stuff is pretty disturbing, and very condemning. It’s funny because I have trouble reconciling all of this with the nice old guy who hands this stuff to me. My point? How frustrating and sad that people place strictures upon themselves this way.

As an after thought, this tract has some really great art, discounting the fact that Jesus looks a bit like a used car salesman from Jersey. My fav piece is on page eight where we see Eve being tempted in the garden. She’s beautifully rendered and that pesky snake hangin’ out in the apple tree looks like the real deal. There’s also a nice shot of Armageddon on page twelve. Brings to mind Braveheart when he’s talking about fire balls from his eyes and lightening bolts from his arse. Unfortunately, no credits are given, and the pieces are unsigned. I guess modesty of such an awesome talent must be part of the credo too. It’s really a pretty attractive looking piece in comparison to say, Jack Chick tracts.
 
The GM said:
Bottom line, according the JW, I fail miserably at the task of being a True Christian and to paraphrase someone else, I’m going to be a choice log for the flames of Hell...
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JWs don't believe in Hell.

According to some fundies, that is an indication that JWs are a "cult".
 
Hmm...the tract doesn't say that. They must slap that on you later. Here's what it says about Armageddon. "Also, millions of dead ones will be resurected to human life on earth. If they do what God requires of them, they will continue to live on earth forever. If not, they will be destroyed forever."

Harsh. I raised ya ta fry ya.
 
Destroyed forever, not tortured, burned or fried forever.

JW's don't believe that the soul continues on after death or that the dead are in any way conscious in spirit form or otherwise.
 
Fizzer,
I meant fried in the Armaggedon sense. My bad for not communicating that clearly.
The art work is beautifully rendered, though. I was a bit dissapointed that the online version has smaller shots. In the tract, you can really pick out the artist's detailing. Someone took a lot of time and care to put those pics together.
 
I can only think of 2-3 times in my whole life that JWs have come by. I suppose I'm really "lucky". I wonder how much gas JWs waste.
 
it pays to be curteous in life so simply add please at the end of telling them to sod off

and always slam the door with grace
 
bewareofdogmas said:
I can only think of 2-3 times in my whole life that JWs have come by. I suppose I'm really "lucky". I wonder how much gas JWs waste.
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Very little.

I have one of their temples in my neighborhood. The pattern seems to be they meet on Saturday morning and then go out & hit the streets. Rather than drive someplace new....they just seem content to keep walking around the same neighborhoods over & over again..........and again......and again......and again.....

A barking dog (it's a golden retreiver---but he's behind a fence and for all they know it's a bloodthirsty pitbull) does a nice job of scaring them away.............
 
--Never mind that pesky relationship between mother and child in utero.
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Um, just so you know, there is no blood exchange between mother and child. There is an exchange of whatever the baby needs between the placenta.
 
I asked one how he reconcilled the standard JW door knocking and recruiting activities with 2 John 9-11.

He muttered something about them not using that bit and preferring something else about spreading the word (can't remember where he pointed, but it is one their fave biblical verses). I asked how I could be sure that the biblical intrepretation he was asking me to accept was correct, when surely an infallible bible would mean my subjective assessment would be equally as correct as his ...

It didn't send him screaming away in a logical mess but I've not seen him since and it was the third week in a row he'd knocked.

Like the guy you already mentioned, this bloke is pleasant and I think has no malice. I'd just like to get him to think a little more about what he's expected to accept on face value.

Maybe I did.
 
DangerousBeliefs said:


Stupid Nebraskans... you folks finally legalize gambling and Iowa is ready to go with the hookers and pot!

Nebraska is one big southern Baptist... louding preaching the evils of sin while secretly boozing and dancing behind closed doors.

:p
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You do not lie, my friend. I drove my VW Bus through Nebraska last summer, and it was no love lost for us "hippy freaks"- lots of suspicious looks. And it's not like the car is covered in Grateful Dead stickers either. Well, we did meet a few really nice people... but the bulk of the state was Jerry Springer country.

When my wife and I moved into our first house nine or so years ago, we were visited by a pair of good-natured young women representing the JW's. We were still moving in, but I wanted a break unpacking, and they looked as if they could use a cool beverage (this is in Arizona), so I invited them in for a glass of water. I ended up asking them a lot of questions, and they couldn't answer some of them. They asked if they could get me answers and come back- I said sure. Didn't much expect them back. But they did come back, and we repeated this patern of conversation for two more visits (I do not remember the content of these conversations, as it was a decade ago)

On the fourth visit, they brought a supervisor :) Somehow, our conversation turned around to dinosaurs (Jurassic Park was either out or coming soon back then). The supervisor said something about the dinosaurs being all vegetarians in the antediluvian period, and I showed him a picture in one of my books illustrating the serrations found on a T-Rex tooth, and put a steak knife next to the picture. I asked him, if Rex didn't eat meat, what did he use that tooth for. He suggested "scraping bark off trees". So I got a wood chisel from the shed, and put it next to the steak knife. He kind of studied the two tools, and the picture. and he said something non-commital, then I showed him the replica Dynonichus claw I had, a nasty looking hooked implement, and I asked him what that was for if animals didn't kill each other back then. He said he'd find out.

They never came back. Never seen another JW again.

Have had a couple of Mormons by at are new house, but the wife usually scare them away on her own.
 
I'm one of those that mutters "sorry, I'm an atheist" and shuts the door before they get into their spiel.

This seems unnecessarily rude - after all they are clearly sincere and well meaning, however deluded they may be. Unfortunately the only alternatives I can think of ("How would you like it if I came to your door and tried to convert you to atheism?" and "If I wanted to know more about your particular brand of ignorant superstition I'd come to your church and ask") are even ruder.

When I got my first place and my first visits (30 years ago now) I used to invite them in and try to have a rational discussion, but I soon learned the futility of that. Their beliefs are held for emotional reasons, not rational ones, so no amount of rational argument will ever shift 'em.

If anyone does have a good line which gets rid of them without offense whilst at the same time indicating just how unwelcome these unwarranted intrusions are I would like to hear it.
 
My "line" is simply to politely, but clearly say "no, I'm not interested". They often have a follow-up question, to which you are expeted to answer "yes, but" or someting, but just keep saying "no", and they run out of ammo real quick:

JW: "Good morning! Would be interested in hearing what God can do for your life?"

Me: "No, thank you."

JW: "But, would you be interested in eternal life in paradisic surroundings?"

Me: "No, thank you."

JW: "..uhm, well have a nice day, then."

Me: "Tank you, and the same to you.(closes door)"

Not that they come often here. I think they are a small and diminishing community in my neck of the woods.

Incidentially, I had a collegue who was a JW, and it certainly made him a more agreeable person (I also knew him before he joined :rolleyes: ).

Hans
 
You lucky, lucky bastards! I can look down at the "Hall of the kingdom" (JW meeting hall) from my balcony. But do they ring my doorbell so I can be rude to them or invite them in and confuse them, noooo. Evidently there's some stupid agreement about them not disturbing us and us not disturbing them. Still, I'm tempted to go over there and ask them if I could speak to them about Jesus.
 
On the fourth visit, they brought a supervisor :) Somehow, our conversation turned around to dinosaurs (Jurassic Park was either out or coming soon back then). The supervisor said something about the dinosaurs being all vegetarians in the antediluvian period, and I showed him a picture in one of my books illustrating the serrations found on a T-Rex tooth, and put a steak knife next to the picture. I asked him, if Rex didn't eat meat, what did he use that tooth for. He suggested "scraping bark off trees". So I got a wood chisel from the shed, and put it next to the steak knife. He kind of studied the two tools, and the picture. and he said something non-commital, then I showed him the replica Dynonichus claw I had, a nasty looking hooked implement, and I asked him what that was for if animals didn't kill each other back then. He said he'd find out.
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I'm not sure where he got those ideas, it is not a JW teaching that all dinosaurs were vegetarians.
Or that they existed at the same time as humans.
 
Fizzer said:

I'm not sure where he got those ideas, it is not a JW teaching that all dinosaurs were vegetarians.
Or that they existed at the same time as humans.
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That is a little difficult. JW are creationists, but not young earth, in that they hold that the six days of creation might be symbolical. For God, a day might be thousands of years. Yet, since all species were created during genesis, it is a little difficult to explain how humans and dinosaurs should not have coexisted at one stage.

Hans
 
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