I'm sorry for that wrongly typed url above about Butch Madden and Dwight Smith. I was intending to edit it but the edit chance suddenly vanished. I think it should be:
www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/aff3-madden-1984-07-12.html
Why would the F.B.I. have a homicide bureau?
The FBI and Kennedy's assassinationEdit
When President John F. Kennedy was shot and killed, the jurisdiction fell to the local police departments until President Lyndon B. Johnson directed the FBI to take over the investigation. However as the result of the close relationship and friendship that had existed between J. Edgar Hoover and Lyndon Johnson there were some significant conflicts of interest as was illustrated in a taped phone conversation that took place on Nov 29, 1963 in which Hoover is quoted as saying that "a rash of congressional investigations into the assassination would be very, very bad" And President Johnson is then heard saying that there should only be one high level committee headed by some one Johnson himself wanted to select, and FBI Director Hoover can be heard clearly agreeing with this objective.[27] To ensure that there would never be any more confusion over who would handle homicides at the federal level, Congress passed a law that put investigations of deaths of federal officials within FBI jurisdiction.
This is a vast, complex, matter filled with bureaucratic red tape. The FBI has always had as one of its aims as to paint itself with the American public in a favorable light. Their bugging and assassination activities have always been swept under the carpet. My criticism of the FBI is mainly in connection with the MacDonald case, and even the JonBenet Ramsey case, where the FBI murder investigations were crap. Hoover of the FBI is on record as saying the FBI should not get involved in the MacDonald case shortly before he died.
As a layman I have always thought that difficult murders should be investigated by an experienced homicide unit. The FBI investigate murders. It's specialist squad work. It's a bit like medicine where specialists are involved in difficult cases.
There is a bit of background information to this at :
www.burnnotice.wikia.com/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation
Once again, Henri doesn't disappoint.
He has -0- knowledge about anything to do with U.S. law or law enforcement.
The F.B.I. is a Federal Law Enforcement agency. Murder, outside of assassination of elected officials, acts of terrorism, murder involved with some type of criminal interstate activity or as in the JM case, certain murders that occur on fed. property is not a federal crime.
The F.B.I. has and does process different types of evidence through the various technical and forensic sections that they maintain in every sort of criminal investigation, but outside of the exceptions I cite above the agency never investigates murder cases - they only process evidence for the use of the LEA of prosecuting office of the jurisdiction in question.
As far the rest of Henri's internet CTist nonsense, The reason we know about warrantless bugging etc. by the F.B.I. under Hoover is that the agency released their files on ConIntelPro (Counter Intelligence Program)
https://vault.fbi.gov/cointel-pro
Hoover's opinion on the JM case in no way precluded the prosecution from indicting, prosecuting and convicting JM.
They would say any Interstate Crime that crosses State lines, Kidnapping, Bank Robbery and matters of National Security on our shores (counter espionage).
The real answer is they get called in after a City Cop does all the investigation, makes the arrest and writes the report. At that time the FBI are called in to take a picture with your evidence and suspects as well as taking your case.
FBI in my experience are not elite Law Enforcement. Picture any Accountant you have ever known. Now give them a weapon and a badge and you have your average FBI agent. I have had them come call me to a high rise project building. There were 9 of them there. They wanted me to go up and get a bad guy for them on the 10th floor …alone. Why? They didn’t feel “comfortable” doing it. In my experience they were pretty useless self promoters.
The fact is that the FBI does get involved with murder investigation with things like fugitives on the run. The FBI has done undercover work with regard to the Mafia in the past where numerous murders were involved. I agree that there are jurisdictions in America. The MacDonald case was under the jurisdiction of the Army CID. People like Detective Beasley from the local police were sidelined and taken off of the case for that reason. Then what actually happened is that the FBI lab took over the case, and FBI agents like Butch Madden were used to disregard leads and suspects in the case.
Hoover's opinion was that the MacDonald case would end in disaster for the FBI because it was so poorly investigated by the Army CID.
In the JonBenet case, and the Richard Jewell Atlanta Olympic bombing case miscarriage of justice, the FBI became heavily involved in the investigations for one reason or another.
There is an interesting opinion about all this from somebody called Benjamin Bender, Retired Police Detective St. Louis Metropolitan Police:
The fact is that you have no idea what you're talking about. Criminal investigations involving interstate commerce or interstate conspiracies are Federal law enforcement responsibilities. I noted that in my post. What Hoover did or didn't write, say or think about the JM case does not constitute any kind of exculpatory evidence. The F.B.I. lab performed tests on the evidence that was used in the successful prosecution of your man crush. They did not "take over" anything.
I'll let you in on a deep dark secret, are we alone? here goes: Law enforcement agencies and prosecuting attorneys have this secret magic power called investigatory discretion and prosecutorial discretion.
2 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) When was Steven
3 Pitt hired?
4 A. I don't know if Pitt came to the
5 investigation through the district attorney's
6 office or through Sergeant Wickman but I
7 recall Mr. -- or Dr. Pitt being on scene or
8 being in Boulder, being involved with the
9 investigation was it summer of 1997 maybe. I
10 don't know for sure.
11 Q. Was there any plan or strategy on
12 the part of Boulder Police Department or any
13 other law enforcement agencies to try to put
14 pressure on the Ramseys through the public?
15 A. I think so.
16 Q. And wasn't that part of what
17 Steven Pitt was there to do?
18 A. I don't know what his employment
19 agreement or what his motivations were for
20 being there, but he certainly offered advice.
21 Q. On that issue?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And isn't it true that Lou Smit's
24 approach to build a bridge with the Ramseys
25 really was in conflict with the Boulder
260
1 Police Department's strategy of putting public
2 pressure on them?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And the FBI was involved, Bill
5 Hagmaier, who I happened to know from Richard
6 Jewell's case?
7 A. Great guy.
8 Q. Yeah, wrong on Richard Jewell,
9 wrong on Ramsey, that's consistent.
10 Mr. Hagmaier was involved in the formulation
11 of this plan of public pressure on the
12 Ramseys, wasn't he?
13 A. I believe there were discussions
14 with the FBI, yes, about how to exert some
15 public pressure on people who are not
16 cooperating, yes.
17 Q. Part of that was to try to
18 portray them clearly to the public as being
19 uncooperative and therefor appearing to be
20 possibly involved in the death of their
21 daughter, right?
22 A. I think it was two different
23 things. I don't think they were necessarily
24 trying to further paint them as uncooperative.
25 I think they were using the media to get
261
1 them back in to help us with the case.
2 Q. Were they also thinking that they
3 might use the media to apply pressure so that
4 there might be a possibility that one of the
5 parents might confess involvement in the
6 crime? Was that ever discussed?
7 A. That may have been -- that may
8 have been some motivations.
9 Q. Do you believe from your
10 recollections that that was discussed?
11 A. I wouldn't disagree with it. I
12 don't have any concise, clear recollection of
13 a conversation like that.
The FBI have recently been described on TV as keystone cops with regard to their investigation in the past into Al-Qaeda.
HENRIBOY: Still waiting on CHALLENGE NUMBER 3. Please enlighten this forum on the SPECIFIC suspects that were "disregarded" by FBI and CID investigators. Name names or admit that you've failed at every level to prove that your hero is innocent.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Gunderson: As I said earlier the reason I have not sought out these other people, KATHY PERRY and some of the others, MITCHELL, FOWLER, and so forth, is because I can't afford to do so. I had hoped to bring the investigation to a point where a responsible Government agency, such as possibly the FBI or I don't know what other agency would do it, uh, would realize there is considerable doubt in this case and would check out some of these other leads. The reason I did not keep an interview log, I said I didn't feel it was necessary, and the reason I didn't feel it was necessary because I'm no longer a law enforcement officer, and as a matter of fact, in the State of California, I don't know about North Carolina, or other states in the Union, I'm not even required to furnish an individual of their rights, uh, in obtaining a statement or taking information from them. Uh, another very interesting aspect of this investigation involves the missing police records around the country. Through my sources and contacts, uh, I have learned that arrest records for some of the suspects have disappeared from police departments in other sections of the country, not only in Fayetteville, but also in Georgia, Florida, and in Arizona.
MADDEN: Uh, Mr. GUNDERSON, uh, at this point would you please identify specifically the individuals you are talking about.
GUNDERSON: The people I am specifically referring to, this is in the report, uh, are ALLEN P. MAZEROLLE, he was arrested in, I think Daytona Beach, Florida, and also in Marietta, Georgia. Those records are no longer in the police department down there, yet we confirmed he was arrested, through our investigation. And also, SANDERS was arrested, I believe in Arizona, but I'm not real sure about that.
BEASLEY: He was arrested in Arizona, and, BEASLEY speaking.
GUNDERSON: BEASLEY speaking.
BEASLEY: --And I might add another thing, uh, BEASLEY speaking again. Uh, as far as the files are concerned, and where they have gotten to or what happened to them, uh, I have no explanation other than maybe they were lost in the transition from one building to another. But, uh, when I came back from, uh, Nashville, Tennessee, with, uh, Mr. MAHON (phonetic), CID, I had my file folder in my hand. I opened the folder and gave Mr. MAHON some incriminating letters that STOECKLEY had written to me, prior to her, I mean after her leaving Fayetteville, wanting to know if the "heat" was still on, or what have you. Uh, but we went to Nashville, Tennessee, with Mr. MAHON four days, three or four days, the Chief of Police released me from my duties to go down there. I had to make out a report to be away from my job for that length of time. This report had to be filed, and I had to show where I was at. So I know the files have got to be some place. But where, I don't know where.
Q How about her manner of demeanor? Did she strike you as being frank, candid and open?
A Yes, she struck me as being frank.
Q Candid and open. Is that right?
A Right.
Q And you though a person who did not know the names of the persons she lived with as being frank, candid and open?
A Yes.
Q And you thought that her inability to tell you the last name of the owner of the automobile that she used for the evening was also frank, candid and open?
A Yes.
Q And you thought that her telling you that she could not remember where she was for approximately four hours, because she was smoking marijuana is a frank, candid and open answer?
A That's the answer she gave me, and I couldn't get anything else.
Q Well, I appreciate your difficulty in the interview, Mr. Ivory. I don't underestimate that for a moment. What I am asking you is did you honestly take that as a frank, candid and open answer that she said because of marijuana she was not able to remember her whereabouts?
A I could not--I could only take it as face value as what she gave me.
Q Well, the face value of that statement is a lie, since you know that marijuana doesn't have that effect on persons.
A I've never tried it. I do not know.
HENRIBOY: Your weak attempt to answer my challenge is ripe with failure. You didn't name names and you rely on the debunked work of others. This was no surprise for Perry was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia and the details in her confession are an example of a fixed delusion. The defense had such little faith in Perry being a viable suspect that they didn't include her head hair exemplars in the AFIP's DNA exhibits list.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
On the night of the MacDonald killings, Jeffrey MacDonald was only aware of the presence of three males and one female in his living room where he was assaulted (and left unconscious), but Ted Gunderson believes that eight cult members had entered the MacDonald home that night: With information gathered from Helena Stoeckley, Prince Beaseley, and other sources, Ted believes that the cult members involved were: 1. Cult leader Francis Winterbourne (white, deceased), nicknamed "Wizzard", 2. Greg Mitchell (white, deceased), 3. Shelby Don Harris (white, living), 4. Allen Mazerolle (white, living), 5. Dwight Smith (black, living), nicknamed "Zig Zag", : 6. Bruce Fowler (status unknown), 7. Helena Stoeckley (white female, deceased), and 8. Cathy Perry (white female, living). Helena Stoeckley never implicated Cathy Perry as part of the group who entered MacDonald's home, but Perry herself admitted to the FBI that she was present at the murder scene. Ted Gunderson and Prince Beasley have speculated that Helena was fond of Cathy Perry and wanted to shield her from being implicated in the murders.
The FBI have recently been described on TV as keystone cops with regard to their investigation in the past into Al-Qaeda.
please post this TV show clip that stated this.
The point is that the FBI does get involved in murder cases in the form of FBI media campaigns, and media coups, even if the FBI does not dig up any facts. You can't deny that the FBI were heavily involved in the MacDonald case, and the JonBenet Ramsey case, and the Richard Jewell Atlanta Olympic bombing and bungling detectives case in 1996, perhaps because they were high-profile cases. Even if it is just biased FBI polygraphs the FBI can get involved. This FBI matter was discussed at the Steve Thomas deposition in 2001 in the JonBenet Chris Wolf case:
Cathy Perry was interviewed by MacDonald private investigator Shedlick and by Army CID agent Pickering, and another Army CID agent with him. I agree Cathy Perry was nutso which would have made her an unreliable witness in any court case. I just feel Cathy Perry, who is now deceased, was told by her parents to keep her mouth shut about it all.
I have a gut instinct that the suspects in the MacDonald case knew each other intimately, even if they were not involved in some satanism witchcraft coven. People like Mazerolle and Bruce Fowler and Harris just told the FBI that they didn't know each other, as well as categorically denying they were involved in the MacDonald murders. An astute detective would be less credulous about all that. Dwight Smith did say that he knew Helena Stoeckley and Greg Mitchell.
One example is that the partner of Bruce Fowler told the authorities that Bruce Fowler was painting their apartment in the middle of the night when the MacDonald murders happened. If you believe that then you probably think the moon is made of green cheese.
This is what Ken Adachi once wrote about the matter:
please post this TV show clip that stated this.
“These FBI logs document Keystone-cop incompetence by our national security establishment. For the FBI to follow a known terrorist to the Pentagon where the terrorist has a high-level meeting is beyond comprehension,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “It is becoming increasingly apparent that there’s more than meets the eye in Obama’s assassination of al-Aulaqi. We were told that he was a terrorist, when in fact he was also probably a U.S. government informant. Did Obama know about this? Congress and the media need to get on the ball.”
That quote about the FBI being keystone cops was on some show on RT by an American discussing some highly technical, and difficult to understand, business about Al Qaeda dating from 1995. I never made any note of his name because I didn't think it important at the time.