Merged Jeffrey MacDonald did it. He really did.
- Thread starter Bob001
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I'm with you, Byn! I keep checking Pacer every couple of days, but nothing yet.
I know you had plans on Sunday, but we sure missed you at chat. Your old buddy, Rebel, showed up, and it was amusing, to say the least! She's just the same - avoid the evidence, attack the posters - perhaps some things will never change.
If I see anything on Pacer, I'll be sure and give a shout out! Meanwhile, we wait....
Just wondering...Henri, have you ever attended any of the chats?
I know you had plans on Sunday, but we sure missed you at chat. Your old buddy, Rebel, showed up, and it was amusing, to say the least! She's just the same - avoid the evidence, attack the posters - perhaps some things will never change.
If I see anything on Pacer, I'll be sure and give a shout out! Meanwhile, we wait....
Just wondering...Henri, have you ever attended any of the chats?
End Run
In 2008, Judge Fox denied inmate relief for the 2nd time in his tenure as the Judge of Record in this case. Since that decision was rendered, the defense has attempted to make an end run around the evidence put forth by the government at the 1979 trial.
With the help of the 4th Circuit Court, they succeeded in doing so, but Brian Murtagh wisely put the focus back on this evidence during his closing arguments at the 2012 evidentiary hearing.
Murtagh presented the trial evidence to Judge Fox in his usual thorough manner and the core of his presentation was that inmate's statements don't square with the physical evidence collected at the crime scene.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
In 2008, Judge Fox denied inmate relief for the 2nd time in his tenure as the Judge of Record in this case. Since that decision was rendered, the defense has attempted to make an end run around the evidence put forth by the government at the 1979 trial.
With the help of the 4th Circuit Court, they succeeded in doing so, but Brian Murtagh wisely put the focus back on this evidence during his closing arguments at the 2012 evidentiary hearing.
Murtagh presented the trial evidence to Judge Fox in his usual thorough manner and the core of his presentation was that inmate's statements don't square with the physical evidence collected at the crime scene.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Inmate's injuries or lack thereof....
I noticed back around page 9 (still reading thru the forum as I can) that Henri was once again bleating on about how terrible inmate's injuries were and I feel compelled to respond.
Inmate was barely injured and he was NOT knocked unconscious. The only wound that inmate sustained that required treatment was the 1cm neat, clean, surgically precise incised wound in the fifth intercostal space. The bone was not even knicked! That removes the probability that the person inflicted such a wound was drugged out or crazed in any form. Also, inmate's claim of being knocked unconscious is medically impossible.
Dr. Mary Case (certified in both forensic and nueropathology) testified in a different murder case that it is impossible for someone to have been knocked unconscious and then remember the blow that caused the loss. Also, memory prior to the blow and after regaining consciousness would be affected. the longer the person was unconscious the worse the memory impairment. This is MEDICAL FACT. Using this information, we can see that inmate's tale of remembering 3 men and a woman in a floppy hat, and/or the struggle with these people, and/or hearing Colette's alleged "Jeff, Jeff..." is IMPOSSIBLE. Not just improbable it is impossible.
Take this information and combine it with his allegedly being awakened (so he'd not have his glasses on) and the kitchen light being on which would have backlit the intruders........thus, he could not have provided a detailed description.
I noticed back around page 9 (still reading thru the forum as I can) that Henri was once again bleating on about how terrible inmate's injuries were and I feel compelled to respond.
Inmate was barely injured and he was NOT knocked unconscious. The only wound that inmate sustained that required treatment was the 1cm neat, clean, surgically precise incised wound in the fifth intercostal space. The bone was not even knicked! That removes the probability that the person inflicted such a wound was drugged out or crazed in any form. Also, inmate's claim of being knocked unconscious is medically impossible.
Dr. Mary Case (certified in both forensic and nueropathology) testified in a different murder case that it is impossible for someone to have been knocked unconscious and then remember the blow that caused the loss. Also, memory prior to the blow and after regaining consciousness would be affected. the longer the person was unconscious the worse the memory impairment. This is MEDICAL FACT. Using this information, we can see that inmate's tale of remembering 3 men and a woman in a floppy hat, and/or the struggle with these people, and/or hearing Colette's alleged "Jeff, Jeff..." is IMPOSSIBLE. Not just improbable it is impossible.
Take this information and combine it with his allegedly being awakened (so he'd not have his glasses on) and the kitchen light being on which would have backlit the intruders........thus, he could not have provided a detailed description.
Injuries - inmate didn't truly have injuries he only stayed in the hospital because there was no where to release him to since his housing was a crime scene.
contrast that to:
Kimmie's facial midline was totally dislocated. the initial blow likely put her into an unrecoverable coma. the force of the blow fractured her cheek bone forcing the broken end through her skin into the open air. her blood and brain serum were splattered in the MB, including on the interior door frame. (I believe there was also some on a pair of men's white shoes in the closet). There was a full thickness 6" stain of her blood on the MB white shag carpet. I do not now nor will anyone ever convince me that the blow to Kimmie's head by her father was accidental. The damage inflicted upon her poor little 5 year old head was such that it is apparent to ME that he lined up Kimmie's head like he would at bat, and swung for the fences.
Kristy - was stabbed at least twice directly in her heart. That little tiger fought against her father and had a defensive wound to the bone on her little hand. She was not beaten with the club, but, she would have suffered from a condition called cardiac tampanade which is when the sac around the heart filled with so much blood the heart could no longer beat.
Inmate had a small cut on his hand, a bruised abraision on his forehead, some fingernail scratches on his chest, and a self inflicted wound between the ribs. NO comparison. He is a coward who continues to wave the white feather and will never admit to his horrendous actions.
contrast that to:
Kimmie's facial midline was totally dislocated. the initial blow likely put her into an unrecoverable coma. the force of the blow fractured her cheek bone forcing the broken end through her skin into the open air. her blood and brain serum were splattered in the MB, including on the interior door frame. (I believe there was also some on a pair of men's white shoes in the closet). There was a full thickness 6" stain of her blood on the MB white shag carpet. I do not now nor will anyone ever convince me that the blow to Kimmie's head by her father was accidental. The damage inflicted upon her poor little 5 year old head was such that it is apparent to ME that he lined up Kimmie's head like he would at bat, and swung for the fences.
Kristy - was stabbed at least twice directly in her heart. That little tiger fought against her father and had a defensive wound to the bone on her little hand. She was not beaten with the club, but, she would have suffered from a condition called cardiac tampanade which is when the sac around the heart filled with so much blood the heart could no longer beat.
Inmate had a small cut on his hand, a bruised abraision on his forehead, some fingernail scratches on his chest, and a self inflicted wound between the ribs. NO comparison. He is a coward who continues to wave the white feather and will never admit to his horrendous actions.
sorry about the double post
Injuries - inmate didn't truly have injuries he only stayed in the hospital because there was no where to release him to since his housing was a crime scene.
contrast that to:
Kimmie's facial midline was totally dislocated. the initial blow likely put her into an unrecoverable coma. the force of the blow fractured her cheek bone forcing the broken end through her skin into the open air. her blood and brain serum were splattered in the MB, including on the interior door frame. (I believe there was also some on a pair of men's white shoes in the closet). There was a full thickness 6" stain of her blood on the MB white shag carpet. I do not now nor will anyone ever convince me that the blow to Kimmie's head by her father was accidental. The damage inflicted upon her poor little 5 year old head was such that it is apparent to ME that he lined up Kimmie's head like he would at bat, and swung for the fences.
Kristy - was stabbed at least twice directly in her heart. That little tiger fought against her father and had a defensive wound to the bone on her little hand. She was not beaten with the club, but, she would have suffered from a condition called cardiac tampanade which is when the sac around the heart filled with so much blood the heart could no longer beat.
Inmate had a small cut on his hand, a bruised abraision on his forehead, some fingernail scratches on his chest, and a self inflicted wound between the ribs. NO comparison. He is a coward who continues to wave the white feather and will never admit to his horrendous actions.
Injuries - inmate didn't truly have injuries he only stayed in the hospital because there was no where to release him to since his housing was a crime scene.
contrast that to:
Kimmie's facial midline was totally dislocated. the initial blow likely put her into an unrecoverable coma. the force of the blow fractured her cheek bone forcing the broken end through her skin into the open air. her blood and brain serum were splattered in the MB, including on the interior door frame. (I believe there was also some on a pair of men's white shoes in the closet). There was a full thickness 6" stain of her blood on the MB white shag carpet. I do not now nor will anyone ever convince me that the blow to Kimmie's head by her father was accidental. The damage inflicted upon her poor little 5 year old head was such that it is apparent to ME that he lined up Kimmie's head like he would at bat, and swung for the fences.
Kristy - was stabbed at least twice directly in her heart. That little tiger fought against her father and had a defensive wound to the bone on her little hand. She was not beaten with the club, but, she would have suffered from a condition called cardiac tampanade which is when the sac around the heart filled with so much blood the heart could no longer beat.
Inmate had a small cut on his hand, a bruised abraision on his forehead, some fingernail scratches on his chest, and a self inflicted wound between the ribs. NO comparison. He is a coward who continues to wave the white feather and will never admit to his horrendous actions.
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About the so-called "brain serum" of Kim's, which supposedly was found on the master bedroom door frame, I've been searching for a long time for any factual information which might support this idea, but have never found it. Unless I missed it somehow, there's nothing at all in the lab reports or testimonies or witness statements or anywhere else that I can find, that refers to findings of brain serum on door frames or anywhere else.
That said, I think I may have found the answer as to how this idea of "brain serum on the master bedroom door frame" might have evolved.
On the Exhibits and Findings site at themacdoanldcase.com, check out Exhibit D61 (sorry I can't post the direct link; the system won't let me do that yet).
D61 is described as "Red-brown stain on north hall wall." The findings show that this is Type AB blood (same as Kim). Notations on one photo describe this as being located on the north hall wall just outside Kristen's bedroom, and as having a "diluted" appearance. Seeing that, I had to wonder: Why was AB blood found on the wall just outside Kristen's room, when no one was struck in that part of the hallway?
Then, take a look at the first diagram, where the location of D61 is circled. Using the measurements of 2' 6" that are shown for Kim's and Kristen's doorway openings, D61 would have been located about 5' away from the master bedroom.
I now believe that the "diluted" appearance of this exhibit led some investigator (Kearns, maybe?) to surmise that it might be brain serum. If my assumptions are correct, this would mean that whether or not this was in fact brain serum, it was actually NOT on the master bedroom door frame at all, but instead was located 5' away, down the hallway.
Either way, having Kim's type AB blood 5' away from the master bedroom doorway, where she was actually struck, shows once again the force behind MacDonald's rage. May she forever rest in peace, and may there never be a peaceful day for her killer ever again.
Compelling Case
The first time that the brain serum issue came to light was during a 1999 Court TV documentary on the MacDonald case. The narrator stated that Kimmie was struck with such force that her brain serum was found on the master bedroom door frame. Since this documentary aired, the only mention of brain serum being found at the crime scene was in Christina Masewicz's book SCALES OF JUSTICE and a 2012 article comparing/contrasting Joe McGinniss' FINAL VISION with Errol Morris' WILDERNESS OF ERROR.
To my knowledge, there is no CID or FBI documentation that corroborates this claim. IMO, Bunny has made a compelling case for the spatter found on the door frame and/or wall being blood, not brain serum. Either way, the spatter patterns demonstrate that the initial blow to Kimmie's head was not accidental.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
The first time that the brain serum issue came to light was during a 1999 Court TV documentary on the MacDonald case. The narrator stated that Kimmie was struck with such force that her brain serum was found on the master bedroom door frame. Since this documentary aired, the only mention of brain serum being found at the crime scene was in Christina Masewicz's book SCALES OF JUSTICE and a 2012 article comparing/contrasting Joe McGinniss' FINAL VISION with Errol Morris' WILDERNESS OF ERROR.
To my knowledge, there is no CID or FBI documentation that corroborates this claim. IMO, Bunny has made a compelling case for the spatter found on the door frame and/or wall being blood, not brain serum. Either way, the spatter patterns demonstrate that the initial blow to Kimmie's head was not accidental.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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I've always been confused about the brain serum issue...wasn't it something Peter Kearns mentioned in an interview, but for which there is no real documentation for?
Hey, Byn, Maryland girl, happy Preakness Day! My money is on California Chrome...
Hey, Byn, Maryland girl, happy Preakness Day! My money is on California Chrome...
Hi Katy0755 - my money is on Chrome too!
JTF - my point is twofold (1) I KNOW I read somewhere that the serum was found on the door frame and (2) just because the spatter had blood it doesn't mean that there was not ALSO brain serum in the spatter. in fact, with the type of injury Kimmie suffered it would not be unreasonable for brain serum to be found along with the blood.
I am searching my notes to see if I can find where I read it.
JTF - my point is twofold (1) I KNOW I read somewhere that the serum was found on the door frame and (2) just because the spatter had blood it doesn't mean that there was not ALSO brain serum in the spatter. in fact, with the type of injury Kimmie suffered it would not be unreasonable for brain serum to be found along with the blood.
I am searching my notes to see if I can find where I read it.
Exhibits
KATY: The 1999 Court TV documentary CONTROVERSIAL TRIALS was the 1st time that this issue was raised and since Peter Kearns was interviewed for this documentary, it was assumed that he provided the producers with the brain serum claim. It was the narrator of the program, not Kearns, who mentioned that Kimmie's brain serum was found on the master bedroom door frame.
What does the record say? CID Exhibits D10 and D10A are listed as "Red-Brown stain from bottom south edge of west door jamb in east bedroom." There is no mention of brain serum being collected from the door jamb in the east bedroom in any CID Exhibit or hand written note by Chamberlain or Ivory.
Could brain serum have been found on the door frame? It's possible, but there is no CID documentation that corroborates this claim. If the CID is going to document the presence of tinsel, nuts, wax, animal hair, and fecal matter, they are certainly going to document the presence of brain serum at 544 Castle Drive.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
KATY: The 1999 Court TV documentary CONTROVERSIAL TRIALS was the 1st time that this issue was raised and since Peter Kearns was interviewed for this documentary, it was assumed that he provided the producers with the brain serum claim. It was the narrator of the program, not Kearns, who mentioned that Kimmie's brain serum was found on the master bedroom door frame.
What does the record say? CID Exhibits D10 and D10A are listed as "Red-Brown stain from bottom south edge of west door jamb in east bedroom." There is no mention of brain serum being collected from the door jamb in the east bedroom in any CID Exhibit or hand written note by Chamberlain or Ivory.
Could brain serum have been found on the door frame? It's possible, but there is no CID documentation that corroborates this claim. If the CID is going to document the presence of tinsel, nuts, wax, animal hair, and fecal matter, they are certainly going to document the presence of brain serum at 544 Castle Drive.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
I completely disagree with you. I understand that America is a different country, but it seems to be extremely right-wing to me, and many Americans seem to be totally ignorant. Why try to march on Moscow? It's want of judgement. Americans must learn to be judicially minded, and their police must learn not to be just agents of the rich.
Allen Patrick Mazerolle and Greg Mitchell did the MacDonald murders along with their accomplices, and they have never been properly investigated.
This is part of what I have written about the Mazerolle matter in the past:
"I disagree with Byn about Mazerolle. Detective Beasley is on record as saying he saw Mazerolle out of jail with his own eyes at the time of the MacDonald murders. Detective Beasley was no fool, like the bent cop Ivory was. I agree that there might be a piece of paper indicating Mazerolle might have been in jail at the time of the MacDonald murders.
There is such a thing as fraud in these bail bond matters, and fraud is what Detective Beasley believed happened with regard to Mazerolle, and with regard to his supposed time in jail.
Dr MacDonald’s description of the woman holding a candle and the floppy hat and boots matched Helena Stoeckley exactly. That was what first aroused Detective Beasley’s suspicions about the Stoeckley gang."
So often I find my lack of understanding forensic science very frustrating. I've read quite a bit - but what is done now, as compared to what they did in 1970 - is so completely different.
Regarding Kimmie's blood stain on the door frame...I know they would test the stain for blood typing; but would they have tested it for composition? I would imagine that would be the only way they would know if brain serum was present. And - unless there were bits of brain tissue found with the stain, would they do further testing once it was determined that the stain was human blood? I have no idea about any of this.
Does any one know? I'd love to hear.
Regarding Kimmie's blood stain on the door frame...I know they would test the stain for blood typing; but would they have tested it for composition? I would imagine that would be the only way they would know if brain serum was present. And - unless there were bits of brain tissue found with the stain, would they do further testing once it was determined that the stain was human blood? I have no idea about any of this.
Does any one know? I'd love to hear.
Brain Serum - sorry if I confused anyone; I never said the brain serum was listed in CID documentation or lab notes. HOWEVER, I am sure I read it somewhere.....
so, today after some searching I found one of my books that holds notes on the case. section is headed "Medical" but no document is listed and it is the first place in my notes that I found Brain Serum mentioned. My notes say "PKearns" and brain serum - 2 places door jam and carpet. So, while I will continue to search my notes (covers at least 16 journals) for more, what I was wondering if the notes I found might be from our old conversations at A&E (old board) or if it was from conversations about Peter Kearns interviews. JTF/bunny - ring any bells?
katy - I am trying to get confirmation - what I have heard so far (1) brain serum clear (2) not sure if there was/is a way to determine composition and (3) it is likely that brain serum was at least in the 6" stain on the carpet (from description of the injury to Kimmie's head). I will keep looking for answers......
so, today after some searching I found one of my books that holds notes on the case. section is headed "Medical" but no document is listed and it is the first place in my notes that I found Brain Serum mentioned. My notes say "PKearns" and brain serum - 2 places door jam and carpet. So, while I will continue to search my notes (covers at least 16 journals) for more, what I was wondering if the notes I found might be from our old conversations at A&E (old board) or if it was from conversations about Peter Kearns interviews. JTF/bunny - ring any bells?
katy - I am trying to get confirmation - what I have heard so far (1) brain serum clear (2) not sure if there was/is a way to determine composition and (3) it is likely that brain serum was at least in the 6" stain on the carpet (from description of the injury to Kimmie's head). I will keep looking for answers......
Initial Blow From The Club
If the massive fracture to Kimmie's cheekbone was the result of the blow from the club in the master bedroom, I would assume there would be no brain serum found in the six-inch circle of Type AB blood found on the shag carpet. Both CID investigators and Paul Stombaugh theorized that the blow which fractured Kimmie's skull was inflicted as she lay motionless in her bed.
In that scenario, it is possible that brain serum would have been present on her pillow. Unfortunately, the Court TV documentary specifically mentions the master bedroom door frame as being the location where brain serum was allegedly found. There is no CID documentation of brain serum being found on the master bedroom door frame/jamb or on Kimmie's pillow.
According to CID documents, Kimmie's blood was found in two separate locations on the master bedroom door jamb, a massive Type AB blood stain was found on Kimmie's pillow, and a 20.5 inch warp yarn sourced to inmate's torn pajama top was found on that same pillow.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
If the massive fracture to Kimmie's cheekbone was the result of the blow from the club in the master bedroom, I would assume there would be no brain serum found in the six-inch circle of Type AB blood found on the shag carpet. Both CID investigators and Paul Stombaugh theorized that the blow which fractured Kimmie's skull was inflicted as she lay motionless in her bed.
In that scenario, it is possible that brain serum would have been present on her pillow. Unfortunately, the Court TV documentary specifically mentions the master bedroom door frame as being the location where brain serum was allegedly found. There is no CID documentation of brain serum being found on the master bedroom door frame/jamb or on Kimmie's pillow.
According to CID documents, Kimmie's blood was found in two separate locations on the master bedroom door jamb, a massive Type AB blood stain was found on Kimmie's pillow, and a 20.5 inch warp yarn sourced to inmate's torn pajama top was found on that same pillow.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
I apologize if this topic has already been discussed; but I would like to comment on Kimmy's injury in the master bedroom. Brian Murtagh states:
“Then, he swings the club. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t think he was going for the girl. I think he swung at Colette but he missed and cracked Kimmy’s head open like a walnut. She falls and bleeds copiously on the shag rug."
There is no one I respect more than Brian when it comes to the MacDonald case. But after reading the above posts that gruesomely describe the first blow to Kimmy's head, I believe it was intentional. I do agree with Brian that it was Kim's bed-wetting, which triggered the initial rage in MacDonald. I believe that once he had obtained the club, his rage was roaring out of control, and he back-handed Kimmy with the club. My opinion is that the blow was too severe to be unintentional.
As I said, just my opinion!
“Then, he swings the club. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don’t think he was going for the girl. I think he swung at Colette but he missed and cracked Kimmy’s head open like a walnut. She falls and bleeds copiously on the shag rug."
There is no one I respect more than Brian when it comes to the MacDonald case. But after reading the above posts that gruesomely describe the first blow to Kimmy's head, I believe it was intentional. I do agree with Brian that it was Kim's bed-wetting, which triggered the initial rage in MacDonald. I believe that once he had obtained the club, his rage was roaring out of control, and he back-handed Kimmy with the club. My opinion is that the blow was too severe to be unintentional.
As I said, just my opinion!
JTF - the blow to the head is EXACTLY why the 6" stain likely contains brain serum. that severe an injury fluid could leak from the nose, ears, and mouth. the midline fracture/dislocation and broken cheekbone could have easily meant an easy path for the fluid around the brain to exit the body.
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