James Webb: Pro/Con

[Trakar]

Sounds like he might get a bunch of Repub votes, where as Hillary...

Nah, why would Republicans vote for a conservative lite democratic candidate when there are so many actual republican conservatives to choose from?

 

[sunmaster14]

Oh, I'm totally calling you a racist. You brought race into a thread that had nothing to do with it. You set up a strawman where "the mainstream media would be trashing him as a racist, if not a white supremacist" if he were a Republican. When two people pointed out he's actually married to a non-white person, you started in on "honorary white people" and "racial grievance mongers". If anybody here deserves the title "racial grievance monger" it's you, and the reason for it is your blatantly obvious racism displayed in this very thread.

I'll see you in AAH I suppose, but your claims are particularly ironic given that my wife is Chinese.

 

[casebro]

Nah, why would Republicans vote for a conservative lite democratic candidate when there are so many actual republican conservatives to choose from?

Because people want to vote for the winner. And if their choice is a rabid tea party conservative,they will jump the line. In the past few elections the winner was the one who got the most crossover votes. A 2% line jumper quota did it.

Paul vs Hill? Paul.

Paul vs Webb? I'd go Webb.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I'll see you in AAH I suppose, but your claims are particularly ironic given that my wife is Chinese.

As you yourself said:

I would ask you what country you've been living in for the last 30 years, but that wouldn't be nice.

In any case, Asians are honorary white people, at least in the minds of racial grievance-mongers.

when you were suggesting that having an Asian wife is no proof one isn't a racist or white supremacist.

 

[sunmaster14]

As you yourself said:



when you were suggesting that having an Asian wife is no proof one isn't a racist or white supremacist.

You're the one who has a problem with consistency. After all, you're the one who wrote:

It's hard to make charges of racism and white supremacy stick to a guy married to someone who isn't white.

I believe that having an Asian wife is of zero value in determining whether somebody is a racist. That was what the argument was about, and you have undermined your own argument by claiming that I am a racist.

As for that claim, I honestly don't see where you're getting that from. All I said was that Webb has written a greal deal about the Scots-Irish in America as an ethnic group, and, in particular, those Scots-Irish who live in the South and in Appalachia. These are the people for whom it is politically correct to demonize as uneducated, inbred, racist rednecks. His claims that this group has suffered government oppression and deserves policy relief from that oppression, are dangerously close to the boundary which separates white supremacist rhetoric from acceptable discourse. After all, many white supremacists would say that they are only defending the rights of white people, just like black or hispanic civil rights groups work to defend the rights and interests of black or hispanic people.

As a Democrat, Webb has been able to get away with his advocacy on behalf of "rednecks." Just as Harry Reid, Joe Biden, and Bill Clinton, were given a pass for their racially insensitive remarks about Barack Obama. I think a Republican with Webb's background would have been slandered as a racist by now, to the point where his future political prospects would be nil.

Now, you may disagree with my claim, but I don't see how you can seriously argue that my claim is racist, or somehow proof of my own racism.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I believe that having an Asian wife is of zero value in determining whether somebody is a racist. That was what the argument was about, and you have undermined your own argument by claiming that I am a racist.

As for that claim, I honestly don't see where you're getting that from. All I said was that Webb has written a greal deal about the Scots-Irish in America as an ethnic group, and, in particular, those Scots-Irish who live in the South and in Appalachia. These are the people for whom it is politically correct to demonize as uneducated, inbred, racist rednecks. His claims that this group has suffered government oppression and deserves policy relief from that oppression, are dangerously close to the boundary which separates white supremacist rhetoric from acceptable discourse. After all, many white supremacists would say that they are only defending the rights of white people, just like black or hispanic civil rights groups work to defend the rights and interests of black or hispanic people.

As a Democrat, Webb has been able to get away with his advocacy on behalf of "rednecks." Just as Harry Reid, Joe Biden, and Bill Clinton, were given a pass for their racially insensitive remarks about Barack Obama. I think a Republican with Webb's background would have been slandered as a racist by now, to the point where his future political prospects would be nil.

Now, you may disagree with my claim, but I don't see how you can seriously argue that my claim is racist, or somehow proof of my own racism.

I don't see how you can seriously argue anything. First you declare that Jim Webb is a racist and white supremacist because he cares about "rednecks" (who are among his constituents) and that that's code for "white supremacists". Then you say that his having a nonwhite wife is somehow an even stronger indication of these views you claim he has. Then you use your own nonwhite wife as proof that you aren't racist. And you do all this while claiming it's what "the mainstream media would say". It sounds to me like you're flinging whatever filth you can dream up at Democrats, the media, and Webb in particular and hoping it sticks.

Can you cite a single racist remark or action of Webb's? Real ones, not things you imagine or suppose or find suspicious?

 

[sunmaster14]

I don't see how you can seriously argue anything. First you declare that Jim Webb is a racist and white supremacist because he cares about "rednecks" (who are among his constituents) and that that's code for "white supremacists". Then you say that his having a nonwhite wife is somehow an even stronger indication of these views you claim he has. Then you use your own nonwhite wife as proof that you aren't racist. And you do all this while claiming it's what "the mainstream media would say". It sounds to me like you're flinging whatever filth you can dream up at Democrats, the media, and Webb in particular and hoping it sticks.

Can you cite a single racist remark or action of Webb's? Real ones, not things you imagine or suppose or find suspicious?

Everything you have claimed that I have claimed is false, literally:

(1) I have never said that Jim Webb is a racist, let alone a white supremacist. I don't think he is, at least not according to my working definition of racist, which is somebody who wants to treat people differently according to their ethnicity;

(2) I never said that the fact that his wife is non-white is even stronger evidence that he is a racist. And of course I don't believe that. On the contrary, I have claimed that his choice of wife has zero probative value as to any alleged racism on his part;

(3) I never claimed that the fact that my wife is non-white is evidence that I'm not racist. My rebuttal to your claim that I am a racist is solely based on your lack of evidence.

My point is that if Webb was a Republican, he would probably be slandered as a racist for the views that he has already put into writing. The fact that he is a Democrat protects him to some degree from such accusations, but probably not enough if he were to actually become a threat to Hillary Clinton's campaign. There's no doubt in my mind that his advocacy on behalf of what many liberals call "poor white trash" would come back to bite him in a Democratic primary.

 

[Trakar]

Because people want to vote for the winner. And if their choice is a rabid tea party conservative,they will jump the line. In the past few elections the winner was the one who got the most crossover votes. A 2% line jumper quota did it.

Paul vs Hill? Paul.

Paul vs Webb? I'd go Webb.

That is a very peculiar mindset!

I'm not sure who "Hill" is?

In a choice between Sanders and Clinton, I'd choose Sanders, but in a competition between Clinton and anyone in either of the Fox debates, I'll likely vote for Jill Stine.

 

[Mark6]

That is a very peculiar mindset!

I'm not sure who "Hill" is?

In a choice between Sanders and Clinton, I'd choose Sanders, but in a competition between Clinton and anyone in either of the Fox debates, I'll likely vote for Jill Stine.

"Hill" is Hillary Clinton

 

[Bob001]

I didn't know it was the same Jim Webb (my bad). As to his war record, I don't need to spend much time on it, as I served with the 1st Btn, 11th Infantry Regt. We took over for the 5th Marines when they pulled out of I Corp, so Sen. Webb and I have probably slept in the same mud. If you want to read and shiver, look up CPT.Marvin Roberts, the CO of my company (Co B). I never had the honor of meeting CPT.Roberts (he was KIA just before I got there) but he was a legend to the men who served with him and Sen Webb is obviously cut from the same cloth. I like him even more now.

http://www.virtualwall.org/dr/RobertsMJ01a.htm

I think the most astonishing thing about Webb's citation is that, when confronted with three enemy soldiers who were prepared to throw grenades at him, he captured them alive.

First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Webb

I've heard about "cool under fire," but this guy must have freon in his veins. I can't help but compare him to the average politician who gets votes by shrieking "the sky is falling!" at every opportunity.

 

[Chuck Guiteau]

I think the most astonishing thing about Webb's citation is that, when confronted with three enemy soldiers who were prepared to throw grenades at him, he captured them alive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Webb

I've heard about "cool under fire," but this guy must have freon in his veins. I can't help but compare him to the average politician who gets votes by shrieking "the sky is falling!" at every opportunity.

I tend to agree with you, although snatchin' one of them up by the stacking swivel may have just been following the old Marine Corps tradition of "improvise, adapt, overcome". The NVA weren't particularly bullet resistant, but he would probably have made a pretty good improvised flak jacket in case one of his comrades got frisky with a frag.
Just ordered one of Webb's books (Lost Soldiers). Sounds good from the description on Amazon.

 

[Maurice Ledifficile]

I'm not going to call anyone a racist specifically at this time (although most of the folks on my ignore list are), but I feel the need to point this out:

Many racist white men are married to Asian or eastern European women. Just as many sexist men have long regarded their wife as inferior, many men are perfectly happy with a spouse they believe inferior in many ways for various reasons.

 

[Trakar]

"Hill" is Hillary Clinton

So on the Dem side, we have Hill, Ber, Lin, Mar, and Ji and on the Rep side we have Dona, Je, Geo, Be, Chri, Te, Car, Mi, Bo, Jo, Ra, Ri, Mar and Sco among the even lessor knowns?

What exactly is the purpose and intent of such inappropriate usage of such clipped diminutives of the candidates' for president of the United States first names?

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

kinda hard to be a Republican In Name Only (RINO) when, in name, you are a Democratic candidate?

LOL, you're right.

 

[Trakar]

LOL, you're right.

 

[SezMe]

If I wanted a lite Republican, why would I vote for Webb? I'd just vote Republican - assuming none of the lug nuts is the final nominee.

 

[TragicMonkey]

If I wanted a lite Republican, why would I vote for Webb? I'd just vote Republican - assuming none of the lug nuts is the final nominee.

Because there are Republicans and there are Republicans. Which flavor do you prefer: the Jesus Crazy Republicans, the War Crazy Republicans, or the Plutocrat's Delight Republicans? If you don't like any of those, you might just want a Democrat who's close to what a Republican could be if they weren't tainted by three flavors of crazy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

A reason to support James Webb is that he's close to being a JFK sort of Democrat.

I support for my own reasons. (I talked a few friends into vote for him, hell, voting at all, when he ran for Senator versus Allen. I could not, as I am in the wrong state).

As to his wife, she's his third, so I guess third time's a charm. (I hope so, for their sake).