James Cameron in the Mariana Trench

[theprestige]

Okay, cool. I thought he was just down there for filmmaking. But it's still a case of "go down, see what's there", which is exploration and laudable of itself, but it's not exactly science.

You lost me. What kind of science were you looking for?

I mean, what part of "make observations and collect data" isn't scientific enough for you?

Is it that he's not leaving behind enough thermometers? Is it because he won't be growing a potato on the abyssal plain?

 

[Normal Dude]

I worked with a guy who spent a lot of time on nuclear subs. I was really surprised to learn that they do not navigate using any kind of sonar, generally. They rely on extensive accurate maps of the ocean floor, and inertial navigation. I found that difficult to believe, but that's the way it is apparently.

A sub using sonar to navigate is the equivalent of you on a night infiltration mission in enemy lines, using a flood flight to navigate the darkness. It's not really stealthy.

 

[arthwollipot]

You lost me. What kind of science were you looking for?

I mean, what part of "make observations and collect data" isn't scientific enough for you?

Is it that he's not leaving behind enough thermometers? Is it because he won't be growing a potato on the abyssal plain?

Is he testing any hypotheses?

Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic that he's bringing back samples and making observations. But they're only one part of science. Collecting data is only the first step in doing science. Now that he's done some of that, some science can begin. It was a pretty tough first step!

 

[X]

Is he testing any hypotheses?

Well, he is testing the hypothesis that a Rolex watch can withstand the pressures at that depth. It's attached to the outside of his sub.

Probably not what you meant, though.

My understanding was that many deep sea dives were voyages of exploration and discovery, more than targeted tests of hypothesis.

 

[arthwollipot]

Well, he is testing the hypothesis that a Rolex watch can withstand the pressures at that depth. It's attached to the outside of his sub.

Probably not what you meant, though.

My understanding was that many deep sea dives were voyages of exploration and discovery, more than targeted tests of hypothesis.

Yes, this is pretty much it.

I shouldn't have brought it up. Exploration and discovery is a worthwhile end goal in itself.

 

[Psi Baba]

I think he's going back down, and collecting film for a National Geographic program to be released next year.

Surely he didn't go all that way and forget to take cameras with him! "Damn, I knew I forgot something."

 

[Mikemcc]

A sub using sonar to navigate is the equivalent of you on a night infiltration mission in enemy lines, using a flood flight to navigate the darkness. It's not really stealthy.

And occasionally they bump into things, or each other...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/16/nuclear-submarines-collide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Grayling_(SSN-646)

 

[Evilgiraffe]

And occasionally they bump into things, or each other...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/16/nuclear-submarines-collide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Grayling_(SSN-646)

Well, what do you expect? Those other subs were out there, moving around steathily. The Royal Navy can even hit things that stay still.

 

[SezMe]

Mikemcc, your link to the Grayling wasn't the right one for me. This worked better.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Is he testing any hypotheses?

Don't get me wrong, it's fantastic that he's bringing back samples and making observations. But they're only one part of science. Collecting data is only the first step in doing science. Now that he's done some of that, some science can begin. It was a pretty tough first step!

Yea the voyage of the beagle is so over played as science when it was nothing of the sort due to lack of hypotheses.

 

[Buckaroo]

Yea the voyage of the beagle is so over played as science when it was nothing of the sort due to lack of hypotheses.

C'mon, y'all, quit picking on him -- Arthwollipot has reconsidered and conceded:

I shouldn't have brought it up. Exploration and discovery is a worthwhile end goal in itself.

 

[NoahFence]

Did I hear that the hydraulics broke on the collector arms? Kind of a drag, but it gives him a valid excuse to go back!

 

[CapelDodger]

One thing I wonder is how certain are scientists that Challenger Deep is the deepest point in all oceans?

What the heck, it's deep enough to house all the lawyers.

 

[CapelDodger]

Surely he didn't go all that way and forget to take cameras with him! "Damn, I knew I forgot something."

"Battery Low?!?" Now you give me "Battery Low?!?" (Hurls camera at window in exasperation ... )

 

[Mr.D]

I think he discovered that it's wet down there.

The Talking Heads beat him to publication though.

 

[Morrigan]

You're all missing the most significant milestone of this mission:



Deepest tweet ever.

How the hell did he even get internet down there?

But seriously, that's really damn cool. I don't care for Avatar at all, nor any of his recent movies really, but I just grew a lot of admiration for the man. That is just plain awesome. I hope to see a documentary about that soon.

 

[Verde]

How the hell did he even get internet down there?

I was wondering about that also, but it seems to have been answered upthread.

But seriously, that's really damn cool. I don't care for Avatar at all, nor any of his recent movies really, but I just grew a lot of admiration for the man. That is just plain awesome. I hope to see a documentary about that soon.

Richard Branson, of Virgin fame, is planning to do the same thing. You can be sure there will be plenty of footage about that one.

V.

ps: I admire these accomplishments. I don't have the finances or courage to attempt this.

 

[quarky]

It is often mentioned, this crushing pressure of the deep.
We can barely put together a high-tek vessel strong enough for that environment.
Yet, when we manage to get down there and make observations, what we often see is fleshy creatures, not a whole lot different than ourselves.

From casual reading, one might expect that the only beasties that could manage such depths would surely require spherical-shaped units of 2' thick stainless steel.

Fact of the mater is, the usual, primitive protoplasm of the sort that we are comprised of, is actually up to the task. Inhabiting these exotic realms has not required extraordinary technology, nor even extraordinary life forms.

Even mammals, with red blood and mammary glands, have managed depths beyond most of our best technology. This is why I mentioned the plastic bag, versus the amazing architecture. The odd fish and invertebrates that we've seen in the deep are not particularly of different design and structure than anything we observe in shallow water.

Its simply a different niche; a poor one perhaps, with more limited exploitation opportunities...but not one that requires a whole new physical design, with super-awesome crush proof body types.
There's mushy bodied worms down there, with no amazing titanium exo-skeletons.

Its just regular old biology, plus some cool bio-luminescence tricks and such.

I mention the rather obvious here to distract from the misunderstanding that is often promulgated concerning these extreme conditions and our difficulty at accessing them.

A shark that manages life 2 miles down in the ocean is not enduring horrendous pressure. Its not down there being crushed by awesome forces. It doesn't require an extraordinary bone structure. The forces don't make its eyes bulge out nor flatten its head into a unique configuration.

I state the obvious, perhaps, for this forum, yet I sense that the general populace can't get their minds around this. One might expect to only encounter life forms at depth that resemble our finest attempts at building crush-proof containment. But that's not what is going on.

IMHO, we are going about this exploration in a radically wrong-headed way.
And it may be flavoring the way we view the limits of various ecological niches...here, and elsewhere.

 

[theprestige]

How the hell did he even get internet down there?

I was wondering about that also, but it seems to have been answered upthread.

I don't think Morrigan was being serious, but the serious answer is probably that he doesn't have Internet access from the sub.

Rather, the tender vessel on the surface probably has Internet access. One of the staff on the tender probably has duties that include re-posting selected text messages from Cameron to Twitter (optionally, the process could be automated instead).

 

[phunk]

It is often mentioned, this crushing pressure of the deep.
We can barely put together a high-tek vessel strong enough for that environment.
Yet, when we manage to get down there and make observations, what we often see is fleshy creatures, not a whole lot different than ourselves.

From casual reading, one might expect that the only beasties that could manage such depths would surely require spherical-shaped units of 2' thick stainless steel.

Fact of the mater is, the usual, primitive protoplasm of the sort that we are comprised of, is actually up to the task. Inhabiting these exotic realms has not required extraordinary technology, nor even extraordinary life forms.

Even mammals, with red blood and mammary glands, have managed depths beyond most of our best technology. This is why I mentioned the plastic bag, versus the amazing architecture. The odd fish and invertebrates that we've seen in the deep are not particularly of different design and structure than anything we observe in shallow water.

Its simply a different niche; a poor one perhaps, with more limited exploitation opportunities...but not one that requires a whole new physical design, with super-awesome crush proof body types.
There's mushy bodied worms down there, with no amazing titanium exo-skeletons.

Its just regular old biology, plus some cool bio-luminescence tricks and such.

I mention the rather obvious here to distract from the misunderstanding that is often promulgated concerning these extreme conditions and our difficulty at accessing them.

A shark that manages life 2 miles down in the ocean is not enduring horrendous pressure. Its not down there being crushed by awesome forces. It doesn't require an extraordinary bone structure. The forces don't make its eyes bulge out nor flatten its head into a unique configuration.

I state the obvious, perhaps, for this forum, yet I sense that the general populace can't get their minds around this. One might expect to only encounter life forms at depth that resemble our finest attempts at building crush-proof containment. But that's not what is going on.

IMHO, we are going about this exploration in a radically wrong-headed way.
And it may be flavoring the way we view the limits of various ecological niches...here, and elsewhere.

The only thing you need to be crush proof is to be made of incompressible materials. The solids and liquids in our bodies are ok at that, you don't feel the pressure at all when you're underwater as long as you keep the air pockets (lungs, ears, etc) in your body at the same pressure as the outside water. The problem is, when breathing higher pressure air, your body absorbs the gasses differently than at sea level, especially nitrogen. If you spend a few minutes at 100 feet then ascend too fast, the extra nitrogen that accumulated in your blood can escape, causing bubbles in your bloodstream that can affect circulation, possibly killing you in a variety of painful ways.

And that's just at a few minutes at a fraction of a percent of the depth Cameron went to. The only way for us to survive a trip that deep is to do it in a vessel that maintains normal atmospheric pressure inside, because we breathe air.

It's not at all surprising that creatures have evolved ways to live at great depth, that doesn't mean we can do it with our land adapted bodies.