Jack the Ripper - a different angle

[uke2se]

There hasn't been a thread about Jack the Ripper for over a year, so I thought I'd check if anyone wants to deal with a possible conspiracy that goes back over a hundred years.

I'll start off with the fact that I am very much an amateur when it comes to Ripper lore. I've seen a few documentaries, read a few books (mainly novels) and garnered an odd fact here and there. I'm starting this thread mostly to see if there's anyone with a bunch of Ripper knowledge with whom one could bounce ideas.

I had a thought the other day that perhaps Jack's motivation was antisemitic in nature. A couple of things could seem to support this theory:

- The message "The Juwes are The men that Will not be Blamed for nothing." written on a wall next to a piece of Katherine Eddowes bloody apron minutes after her murder.

- Elizabeth Stride was found in the courtyard next to the International Workers' Educational Club - a Jewish club.

- Another body (can't recall who - possibly Eddowes again) found near a Synagogue.

If anyone's up for it, I'd think it would be interesting to explore this possible motive. If anyone has any knowledge that would shut this motive down, I'd be interested in that as well.

Put on your best bowler hat and stick a pipe in your mouth.

 

[Tomtomkent]

The Gaulstone street grafiti was found near the apron, but certainly unrelated. There was no time (or light) for it to be written after the murder. It was washed away to prevent the public from making the same connection you have and kickstarting a pogrom at a time when racial tensions were at boiling point.


As for the rest of your claims, the murderer was in whitechappel, where at the time as the district where the many Jewish immigrants were sent, especially those with no other skills, to join the production lines of tailors and shoe makers, after a few decades of Pogroms, it was hard not to be with in spitting distance of a Jewish building.

What part of this is a conspiracy? If we accept the Macnaughtan and Swanson notes and believe the Ripper was either harmless Jewish schizophrenic Kozminski, or some other incredibly violent Jew who died in the asylum as Mac described (so Cohen or Levi) then he was "caught" and given to the authorities by his family. Jewish folks organised and funded some of the vigilance comitees, and contrary ro many antii-semitic theories two of the four witnesses who came forwards with sightings that were probably of the killer were Jewish. I know its not what you were saying, but it is also sad that antisemites have tried to trump up a jewish ripper to somehow represent all Jews. Unsurprising but sad.

If the killer himself was anti-semitic, then it is odd he did not take further action to directly implicate the Jews,. Why not write more messages? Why stop to do that when you were disturbed in your work and at risk of being caught, but not when your victim went undisturbed for hours?

 

[uke2se]

The Gaulstone street grafiti was found near the apron, but certainly unrelated. There was no time (or light) for it to be written after the murder. It was washed away to prevent the public from making the same connection you have and kickstarting a pogrom at a time when racial tensions were at boiling point.

Wasn't it raining that night as well?

As for the rest of your claims, the murderer was in whitechappel, where at the time as the district where the many Jewish immigrants were sent, especially those with no other skills, to join the production lines of tailors and shoe makers, after a few decades of Pogroms, it was hard not to be with in spitting distance of a Jewish building.

Very true. Buildings occupied by Jews and Jewish religious centers would have abounded.

What part of this is a conspiracy?

To be quite honest, I'm not sure. I just put it here because I didn't think it fit in the history forum.

If we accept the Macnaughtan and Swanson notes and believe the Ripper was either harmless Jewish schizophrenic Kozminski, or some other incredibly violent Jew who died in the asylum as Mac described (so Cohen or Levi) then he was "caught" and given to the authorities by his family. Jewish folks organised and funded some of the vigilance comitees, and contrary ro many antii-semitic theories two of the four witnesses who came forwards with sightings that were probably of the killer were Jewish. I know its not what you were saying, but it is also sad that antisemites have tried to trump up a jewish ripper to somehow represent all Jews. Unsurprising but sad.

Also true.

If the killer himself was anti-semitic, then it is odd he did not take further action to directly implicate the Jews,. Why not write more messages? Why stop to do that when you were disturbed in your work and at risk of being caught, but not when your victim went undisturbed for hours?

This is of course one of the biggest arguments against the antisemitic Jack the Ripper idea. It was something that struck me when I started mulling this over. I figured perhaps - just perhaps - the Ripper wanted to deflect some of the blame for his crimes onto the Jews and then pretty much dropped the idea.

About the writing and the apron, I didn't know it had been determined that it was unrelated. As far as I could tell with my (limited) research into this, there are varying theories regarding that. In any case, the writing is interesting to me because of it's implied threat.

 

[Corsair 115]

I thought Babylon 5 already solved this mystery...

 

[Tomtomkent]

The rain has been overplayed. The message was chalked under the arch of a sheltered doorway, not on the door itself but on one side of the arch. I think. Tbh, you are best of downloading the episode of rippercast on the subject.

 

[LSSBB]

I thought Babylon 5 already solved this mystery...

Star Trek TOS beat them to it, thanks to fine writing by Robert Bloch. Also see his short story in Dangerous Visions and Harlan Ellison's sequel story.

 

[SpitfireIX]

The Gaulstone street grafiti was found near the apron, but certainly unrelated. There was no time (or light) for it to be written after the murder.

Further, it was almost certainly written by a native French speaker. The French word for Jews is Juifs, and the double-negative construction is a feature of the French language.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I dont think we will ever identify Jack. He was in probability an anonymous working class labourer. Given where he murdered, the history of working girls being approached by and threatened by a supposedly Jewish man, who the Police and press associated with "leather apron", there is every possibility that he was a Jew, or at least Eastern European. Certainly Swanson believed the Jew in question was Kosminski, who did not match the description Swanson also gave (violent, brought in by his family, caged in an asylum, identified by either a witness or a City policeman, then died soon after). Abberline told the officers who arrested chapman, aka Klowoski a domestic poisoner, that they had caught the Ripper. Yet why would Aberline believe that if the Ripper was caged and dead?

My gut feeling is that the police were looking for somebody with a name like klowoski, or kosminski who was probably their "leather apron" (though even at inquest that name had been applied to at least one innocent party)- the man with a history of accosting women, who is now unknown to us and never likely to be identified. Perhaps it is one of the "known suspects" for "a Jewish Jack", like Levi, or cohen, but more likely somebody lost in the mist of time.

That of course assumes the figure accosting women to shout at them WAS the same guy who was. Killing them. Which is by no means set is stone. After all, that could be the entirely different perpetrator of the equally unsolved torso murders, or just a raving bigot unrelated to any other crime. Any Jack theory is a matter of probability and plausibility, there is precious little evidence and no proof.

 

[GlennB]

... and the double-negative construction is a feature of the French language.

And also very much a feature of working-class Londoner English

 

[Sabrina]

I don't know.

I rather like the angle a writer took on it in an off-canon Sherlock Holmes story. If you're curious, check out The Improbable Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.

Oh wait, this isn't the Literature sub-forum. Never mind.











TBH, I'm of the opinion that we'll never know definitively who Jack was. The case is far too cold to be able to say who it is with any certainty. If you're interested in the case though, there's a website I found a long time ago that pretty much covers every possible angle in the case, breaks down the facts, and offers them up for people to come to their own conclusions. Check out www.casebook.org if you're curious.

 

[Moss]

I fully endorse Sabrina's post. Both the casebook and Improbable Adventures part.
One theory for the torso murders mentioned was illegal abortions gone wrong. Though why an abortionist would put one torso inside the the foundations of the new Scotland Yard building escapes me at present.
Good authors in that field (who also sometimes happen to write on casebook) are Paul Begg, Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner and Donald Rumbelow. A case for a Jewish suspect is Rob House's "Jack the Ripper and the case for Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect". Though I consider it somewhat weak on the evidence.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I fully endorse Sabrina's post. Both the casebook and Improbable Adventures part.
One theory for the torso murders mentioned was illegal abortions gone wrong. Though why an abortionist would put one torso inside the the foundations of the new Scotland Yard building escapes me at present.
Good authors in that field (who also sometimes happen to write on casebook) are Paul Begg, Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner and Donald Rumbelow. A case for a Jewish suspect is Rob House's "Jack the Ripper and the case for Scotland Yard's Prime Suspect". Though I consider it somewhat weak on the evidence.

You missed Fido from the list, as semi-regular poster and brilliant author on the subject. Which is just mean as you mentioned his two co-authors for the A-Z! How shall I put this-a lot of other writers, both good and bad, also contribute to the busy forum there.

 

[Moss]

Martin Fido is certainly entertaining when he relates True Crime stories. But somehow I never really warmed to him. Which is tantamount to heresy, I know.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Martin Fido is certainly entertaining when he relates True Crime stories. But somehow I never really warmed to him. Which is tantamount to heresy, I know.

Fair enough, I just happen to think that the AtoZ is one of the best books on the subject and all three authors deserve some billing, though for entertainment value Stewert Evans chooses some pretty neat subjects like "the man who hunted the ripper" and "letters from hell". For background history Beggs complete facts is awsome.

Yes, I did deliberately choose my two local lads there. Sorry.

 

[catsmate]

I don't know.

I rather like the angle a writer took on it in an off-canon Sherlock Holmes story. If you're curious, check out The Improbable Adventures of Sherlock Holmes.

Oh wait, this isn't the Literature sub-forum. Never mind.

Well, at the risk of continuing the derail, there were several "Holmes meets the Ripper" pastiches, e.g. Dibdin's The Last Sherlock Holmes Story, Faye's Dust and Shadow, Hanna's The Whitechapel Horrors and probably a few more; not to mention several of Douglas's Irene Adler books.

TBH, I'm of the opinion that we'll never know definitively who Jack was. The case is far too cold to be able to say who it is with any certainty. If you're interested in the case though, there's a website I found a long time ago that pretty much covers every possible angle in the case, breaks down the facts, and offers them up for people to come to their own conclusions. Check out www.casebook.org if you're curious.

Yes, like many historical mysteries we probably will never know (barring time travel perhaps).

 

[SpitfireIX]

And also very much a feature of working-class Londoner English

Most of whose speakers were functionally illiterate.

Seriously, though, I saw something about how there are actually two transcriptions that disagree about the position of the word "not", and some have theorized that the constables who hastily transcribed the message might have inserted the double-negative out of habit. That seems a bit thin, but I suppose it can't be ruled out entirely.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I thought Babylon 5 already solved this mystery...

I saw something written by JMS responding to claims that his use of Jack the Ripper in "Comes the Inquisitor" was a cliche; in his rebuttal JMS stated that he'd had to choose a serial killer who a) was known to the audience, but b) had not been active so recently as to risk reopening emotional wounds of victims' families. Only Jack fit the bill.

 

[MG1962]

Much is made of the Ripper murders but they occurred in the backdrop of one of the most criminally active districts in London. Whitechapel was a virtual paradise compared to Spitalfields and the worst of Spitalfields was Dorset, George , and Flower Street which is were the majority of the victims lived

Rather than concentrate on the Ripper murders a better question is how did anyone notice against the normal levels of violence in the area

 

[Tomtomkent]

Well, the thing is we recognise five victims to be by the Ripper, basedon Macnaughtens overview of the case. But as many as twelve murders were at one point considered to be his work when they were reported. So it could be claimed they werent spotted all that well and "JtR" was a false correlation.

Of course, the numbers were quickly refined to those that did show signs of being a series, and inthese cases the unusual sexual violence was enough to set them apart. There are many murders in any city, but some are so disgusting they simply stand out as something different.