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I've Moved To Mac

Stop defending neccessary evils; stop loving your OS and get real. That is my final word, thank you!
 
NobbyNobbs said:
And in that vein, does Windows add color when you do a scroll over? No? Then I'd say the Mac has a feature that is more user-friendly than Windows.
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I hate you all, firstly, for making me join in on this stupid debate. In Windows XP, Minimize and Maximize are Blue. Close is Red. When you do a mouse-over on the icons they come up with text labels (Minimize, Maximize, and Close respectively).

Trying to squeeze out a little fart of advantage here over the more user-friendliness of the freaking window control buttons is ridiculous. And I say that to both sides.

I will accept the logo of Calvin peeing on either the Mac or Windows Minimize/Maximize/Close buttons as now having been realized and declare that this thread has officially jumped the shark.

Next topic please.

Please return to your respective corners and dig about in your personal bias bags for another gem of self-serving nitpick and come out swinging for round two.

FIGHT!
 
I would like to point out that voidx is an ex-NeXT user and was one of the first to jump onto the BeOS bandwagon - so he knows what marks out a good and successful OS!
 
chulbert said:
That's why, not what. What are you trying to say? That the reason you didn't think OS X used icons for Close, Minimize and Resize is because they weren't visible in the screenshot you found?

I don't mean to be unkind but it's uninformed criticisms like these that cause me to question whether you've used a modern Mac.
Click to expand...

You miss my point entirely.

I am not saying that there aren't icons on the buttons. I am saying that the user has to act to see the icons.
 
The best experience I've ever had on an OS was the first Amiga computer I got my hands on and I could pull the screen with the bouncing ball down and have workbench behind it and then pull that down...

Ah smooth scrolling - if only PCs (Mac or Windows) could manage that! Bloody hell I could get smooth as glass scrolling with a simple poke on my old Atari 600XL (something like Poke 655,1).

ETA Damn memory is really going - it was Poke 622 !
 
OK, this debate is silly and I feel silly for taking part in it.

Time to log off and go home.

Can someone tell me how to shut down my PC? I see a "start" button but I can't find a "finished" button.

:D
 
CFLarsen said:
No, because Windows start with icons. Icons are better than colors.
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That is an entirely different point. You originally claimed that OS X uses only colors to differentiate between the functions and that claim is clearly incorrect.

Now that we have a better understanding of the solution provided by each platform we can discuss their relative merits.
 
CFLarsen said:
I am not saying that there aren't icons on the buttons.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you said and then tried to back up with a screenshot:

CFLarsen said:
Never ever use color as the only visual clue.
Click to expand...

Now, you may have meant that icons that are always visible are a superior solution but that's not what you said. Clearly, demonstratively, color is not the only visual clue of the buttons' fuctions.
 
Well, I have it on good authority that users of Macs all smell of wee. And they look funny. So there.
 
The Vampire said:
I've tossed Windows and moved to a Mac.
Where has this been all my life?
I think I'm in love.
Click to expand...

Go to the Finder menu.
Click 'Go' and then the 'Go to Folder' menu item.
Type in usr/share/emacs/21.2/etc/ into the dialog box.
Drop COOKIES file onto TextEdit in the dock.

Make the cookies in the COOKIES recipe.
Then put the cookies on a plate, get a glass of milk, and dim the lights.

Open the Applications folder, then open Utilities folder.
Start the Terminal program and type in the line:

telnet towel.blinkenlights.nl

Hit return and watch movies the way they were meant to be watched...
Before blue-ray, hdtv, and surround sound that is.
 
chulbert said:
That is an entirely different point. You originally claimed that OS X uses only colors to differentiate between the functions and that claim is clearly incorrect.

Now that we have a better understanding of the solution provided by each platform we can discuss their relative merits.
Click to expand...

chulbert said:
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you said and then tried to back up with a screenshot:

Now, you may have meant that icons that are always visible are a superior solution but that's not what you said. Clearly, demonstratively, color is not the only visual clue of the buttons' fuctions.
Click to expand...

Try to read my posts.

JeffJo said:
Well, sure, one has to learn things.
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Yes, one has to learn things. But users are not all as inquisitive as some of us are. When I get a new application, I spend time trying everything - and I expect to fail most of the time. While I don't get discouraged by that (it's my job to be discouraged, it seems), ordinary users feel it is an often insurmountable task just to use one program.

When they meet something that from the start is confusing, they are not left with the feeling that they are good at it.

JeffJo said:
I will argue no more with you. You are my brother in socks.
Click to expand...

All is forgiven.
 
CFLarsen said:
Yes, one has to learn things. But users are not all as inquisitive as some of us are. When I get a new application, I spend time trying everything - and I expect to fail most of the time. While I don't get discouraged by that (it's my job to be discouraged, it seems), ordinary users feel it is an often insurmountable task just to use one program.
Click to expand...

Is it an 'insurmountable task' to learn what the buttons in the top-left corner of a Mac window do? How long did you say you've worked in IT again? :rolleyes:
 
Ian Osborne said:
Is it an 'insurmountable task' to learn what the buttons in the top-left corner of a Mac window do? How long did you say you've worked in IT again? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That's exactly the superior, condescending attitude that secures my meal ticket.

I am talking about accumulative experiences. When a user clicks on something he doesn't know what will do, and suddenly sees the window disappear, he is not encouraged to try something new. If something unexpected keeps happening, without warnings or feedback, he sees computers as forbidding: They are in control, not the user.

As long as programmers don't realize that they can't program for only themselves, we will have a huge group of people not seeing computers as a help but a chore.

Like I said, it is not a problem for me, because I have been long enough in this business to expect to be discouraged. You have probably worked with computers for a long time, too. But you can't make the assumption that everyone else is as savvy as you. The safest strategy is to assume that all start on as basic a level as possible.

Take your user by the hand. Don't push him.
 
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