It's just a coincidence!!!

[Ethan Thane Athen]

The possibilities are: 1) She's generally psychic, (2) She's not generally psychic, but in this case a hard-to-explain coincidence occurred, or (3) A garden variety coincidence occurred. You clearly think the answer is (3). Now, if you know your friend quite well, I can see how you might eliminate (1), but I'm not sure on what basis you are eliminating (2), other than you're a "skeptic."

I would have said the most likely explanation is that the parents were also looking for the kid (you'd blooming well hope so anyway) and earlier on the friend had heard someone calling the name 'Sara'. She may not have consciously recalled it but it was lodged in her sub-conscious so when she cast about for a name, it washed to the surface.

ETA: Whoops, fromdownunder got there before me. That'll teach me to read the whole thread before commenting!

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

It would seem that Fran's friend isn't really psychic, or the conversation would have gone:

"I'm getting a P. P? It's this really strong sense that you have this letter in your name with a... a curve in it. Could be P, could also be a B, G or S. S, B ... ring any bells? Might be your first or last name."

Kind of hard to psychically guess a little girl's name. Or that of a complete dyslexic.

 

[Cuddles]

Fran, that person is joking about it by throwing out preposterous possibilities.

I'm afraid not. Rodney is one of our resident woos who will believe absolutely anything that has ever been said about psychics or homeopathy.

 

[MetalPig]

We got ourselves a black cat 2 years ago. Seeing a black cat on a daily basis has not affected our lives in any way.
Except that he's a total a-hole. But that's because we named him Loki, not because he's black

 

[-Fran-]

We got ourselves a black cat 2 years ago. Seeing a black cat on a daily basis has not affected our lives in any way.
Except that he's a total a-hole. But that's because we named him Loki, not because he's black

Yeah I've had an all black cat now for 15 years, and she must have crossed my tracks millions of times, and I am still alive and all

And she's a total a-hole as well Without a doubt the most ill-tempered cat in the whole wide world, I am sure. But I love her anyway, she has personality if nothing else

 

[-Fran-]

I'm afraid not. Rodney is one of our resident woos who will believe absolutely anything that has ever been said about psychics or homeopathy.

That's what I was afriad of

 

[-Fran-]

It would seem that Fran's friend isn't really psychic, or the conversation would have gone:

"I'm getting a P. P? It's this really strong sense that you have this letter in your name with a... a curve in it. Could be P, could also be a B, G or S. S, B ... ring any bells? Might be your first or last name."

Kind of hard to psychically guess a little girl's name. Or that of a complete dyslexic.

lol Yeah, I guess a 15 year old girl wouldn't really be able to cold-read a hysterical 5 year old with any success.

 

[-Fran-]

I would have said the most likely explanation is that the parents were also looking for the kid (you'd blooming well hope so anyway) and earlier on the friend had heard someone calling the name 'Sara'. She may not have consciously recalled it but it was lodged in her sub-conscious so when she cast about for a name, it washed to the surface.

ETA: Whoops, fromdownunder got there before me. That'll teach me to read the whole thread before commenting!

Yeah But it's a very elegant explanation I think. It wouldn't surprise me if that really was the real one, though it's too long ago to ever find out for sure.

The parents had looked for her, I think they were more hysterical than the little girl when we found them, and very relieved to get her back We kinda felt like heroes

 

[-Fran-]

Yup--there's lots of people on this planet, and LOTS of events happen everyday. It would be a very strange world if really bizarre coincidences NEVER happened.

Here's a good essay on the topic.

Thanks for the link! It's very interesting. I've read similar things before, and I've come to realize that it's common that people grossly underestimates how often coincidences occur, and then draw the "it's-paranormal-conclusion".

 

[Jeff Corey]

I'm afraid not. Rodney is one of our resident woos who will believe absolutely anything that has ever been said about psychics or homeopathy.

Except the fact that neither has ever been shown to work.

 

[PrincessIneffabelle]

To preface the following story, I would like to mention that I do not have any woo beliefs about the coincidence. I would also like to mention that none of the parties involved had any recollection of hearing the great-grandfather's or great-great-grandfather's names prior to my research except for a misconception about the grandfather's name.

My husband's sister had her baby almost nine months after we had ours. She gave him the middle name "Adam". Our son's middle name is "Marshal" because my husband thought that was his grandpa Siler's middle name (I discovered much later that it was actually "Minton"). After the birth of our child, I started working on my husband's family tree. I found out that his great-grandfather was Marshall Siler, son of Adam Siler. By itself, that was a neat coincidence. I then discovered that both of these men died violent deaths, eighteen months apart (1905 & 1907). I still think it's a neat, if rather gruesome, coincidence. A couple of the family members have some pretty woo ideas about it, though.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Nice story, that's very interesting.

Which brings me to something. Anecdotes of this kind are already funny, surprising, touching, dramatic and poignant. Why cheapen them with woo?

 

[-Fran-]

My husband's sister had her baby almost nine months after we had ours. She gave him the middle name "Adam". Our son's middle name is "Marshal" because my husband thought that was his grandpa Siler's middle name (I discovered much later that it was actually "Minton"). After the birth of our child, I started working on my husband's family tree. I found out that his great-grandfather was Marshall Siler, son of Adam Siler. By itself, that was a neat coincidence. I then discovered that both of these men died violent deaths, eighteen months apart (1905 & 1907). I still think it's a neat, if rather gruesome, coincidence. A couple of the family members have some pretty woo ideas about it, though.

Fascinating story! What's their woo-take on it? If you don't mind me asking?

Nice story, that's very interesting.
Which brings me to something. Anecdotes of this kind are already funny, surprising, touching, dramatic and poignant. Why cheapen them with woo?

That's what I wonder about almost all sorts of woo. Reality with all its fascinating events, nature in all its splendor, the human brain and its complicity... Nothing is fantastic enough for them it seems, woo must be added

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Thanks for the link! It's very interesting. I've read similar things before, and I've come to realize that it's common that people grossly underestimates how often coincidences occur, and then draw the "it's-paranormal-conclusion".

I play poker a lot, and I'm convinced a critical-thinking-skills-through-poker workshop would be a big success.

For instance, the odds of being dealt a Royal Flush in a 5 card hand are 1 in 649,740 (much better odds in 7 card games like Hold 'Em). Poker is very popular, and there are literally millions of hands per hour being played in the U.S. around the clock. That means there are several Royal Flush hands being dealt every hour.

<tangent>
By the way, my poker workshop could easily do a demo of rational thinking vs. "The Secret" in poker. The person using the strategy of "The Secret" would need to want to win more than anyone, and thereby always attract winning hands. All they have to do is bet the maximum amount every time. I suppose they could also draw pictures of huge stacks of chips or something that has no bearing on the game as well. But if they really do intend to win and believe completely that the intention is what attracts the winning hand, they should just push in the highest allowable wager every time.

I guarantee this strategy will fail against someone using more conventional poker strategy.
</tangent>

 

[Rodney]

I'm afraid not. Rodney is one of our resident woos who will believe absolutely anything that has ever been said about psychics or homeopathy.

Nonsense, I don't believe a thing you've said about either subject. The thing that's interesting about this thread, though, is the number of self-defined skeptics who report coincidences that they have no logical explanation for, but which they dismiss anyway.

 

[-Fran-]

Nonsense, I don't believe a thing you've said about either subject. The thing that's interesting about this thread, though, is the number of self-defined skeptics who report coincidences that they have no logical explanation for, but which they dismiss anyway.

Uh I have a feeling this is starting to be about semantics, but...

If I report a coincidence, why would I need an explanation that is paranormal? That it is a coincidence IS the explanation! There could also be other logical explanations, I could have misinterpreted it as a pure coincidence when it in reality had another logical explanation, but a paranormal or supernatural explanation of any kind shape or form is not needed.

What is your definition of a coincidence?? Really, I want to know, I don't think we mean the same thing.

And what are we dismissing? The coincidence? I can't see how we are? We say something is a coincidence, and then... what are we dismissing?

 

[-Fran-]

<tangent>
By the way, my poker workshop could easily do a demo of rational thinking vs. "The Secret" in poker. The person using the strategy of "The Secret" would need to want to win more than anyone, and thereby always attract winning hands. All they have to do is bet the maximum amount every time. I suppose they could also draw pictures of huge stacks of chips or something that has no bearing on the game as well. But if they really do intend to win and believe completely that the intention is what attracts the winning hand, they should just push in the highest allowable wager every time.

I guarantee this strategy will fail against someone using more conventional poker strategy.
</tangent>

I think you really should go challenge some Secretives... Secretions... Secret-fans... whatever those people are called to some poker! I'd do that in a heartbeat if I could play poker. I need money!

 

[Rodney]

Uh I have a feeling this is starting to be about semantics, but...

If I report a coincidence, why would I need an explanation that is paranormal? That it is a coincidence IS the explanation! There could also be other logical explanations, I could have misinterpreted it as a pure coincidence when it in reality had another logical explanation, but a paranormal or supernatural explanation of any kind shape or form is not needed.

What is your definition of a coincidence?? Really, I want to know, I don't think we mean the same thing.

And what are we dismissing? The coincidence? I can't see how we are? We say something is a coincidence, and then... what are we dismissing?

My point is that, while your friend asking the little girl if her name was Sara may have a logical explanation, you haven't come up with one. So, your only basis for believing that this was "just a coincidence" is that you don't believe in the paranormal. Correct?

 

[Archangel]

Uri Geller's 11:11 BS is a great case in point.

Haha as I was reading this I looked down and it was [queue scary music]11:11[/qsm]

As to the asking about Sara it could've been as easy as your friend had heard someone calling for a Sara in the background noise and not registered it.

 

[-Fran-]

My point is that, while your friend asking the little girl if her name was Sara may have a logical explanation, you haven't come up with one. So, your only basis for believing that this was "just a coincidence" is that you don't believe in the paranormal. Correct?

I don't see any evidence for the paranormal, no! So it seems very unlikely to me that that could be the explanation, or part of the explanation, yes. So, lacking any evidence for anything paranormal, why would I reach for such an explanation? That would leave a natural logical explanation, of which a coincidence is one.

Yeah, I don't believe in the paranormal, and I don't because there is currently no evidence for it at all despite investigations carried out in this vein for a very long time. It would be a weird thing for me to do, to believe in something so unlikely while I wait for evidence. If evidence comes and it's convincing enough, I'll change my mind and add that as a possible explanation. I won't hold my breath though

What evidence do you see for a paranormal explanation in a case like this? And I still would like to know how you define 'coincidence' and why it isn't good enough as an explanation? Why is it wrong thinking to think A) It has a natural logical explanation, or B) It was just a coincidence? Why is a C) alternative needed?

My basis for thinking it was a coincidence, by the way, was that I interpreted her getting the name correct at the first try, as a lucky guess! Others have pointed out in this thread that it could have been more than a lucky guess, she could have gotten clues to the name in different ways. I gladly accept that as something I can "fill out" the explanation with. It's likely and logical. More likely than just a lucky guess=a coincidence. If it WAS a real lucky guess though, it's not unheard of, and not something that you need something paranormal to explain.

So, yes, since I do not, on well-founded grounds, believe in the paranormal, I would not base any conclusion on that. Why would you?

Besides, if we would take the paranormal into the equation here, the number of explanations suddenly becomes so many that there is no use in trying to explain it at all anymore. What, or who is it then that has the last saying in what kind of paranormal activity made her guess the girl's name right?

Was she pyschic? Could she read minds? Was she in telepathic contact with the girl, or the girl's parents/any other person who knew the girl? Is my friend maybe a medium? Did a dead person whisper in her ear what the girl's name was? Did god speak to her? Which god? Did any of the other millions of paranormal creatures whisper the name to her? A pink unicorn? A leprechaun? maybe it was reincarnation? The girl had been my friend's daugther in several past lives, and she simply recognized her? And so on, and so on...

Do you see? The possibilities become endless, and no matter how silly some of it may sound, it is all equally unproven, and so equally valid here. If we are to accept a paranormal explanation then there's just as much chance that all-knowing fairies circles my friend's head telling her these things, as that she would be psychic.