It's Homeopathy Awareness Week!

Yes, CCST is where I trained. I did the two year weekend course.

By putting your hands on someone lightly and staying there, I can get a sense of where there are restrictions and whether these restrictions are muscular in nature, or perhaps the restrictions could be of an emotional nature.

Your hands are very sensitive and if you go and put your hands on say someones shoulders for long enough your can get a sense of heat or coldness and whether there is a tension or a tightness in the muscles.

I would mostly start at someones feet and then plan my treatment accordingly as to what I had felt. I will then go to other parts of the body as necessary.
 
Sarah-I said:
Yes, CCST is where I trained. I did the two year weekend course.

By putting your hands on someone lightly and staying there, I can get a sense of where there are restrictions and whether these restrictions are muscular in nature, or perhaps the restrictions could be of an emotional nature.

Your hands are very sensitive and if you go and put your hands on say someones shoulders for long enough your can get a sense of heat or coldness and whether there is a tension or a tightness in the muscles.

I would mostly start at someones feet and then plan my treatment accordingly as to what I had felt. I will then go to other parts of the body as necessary.
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I'd suggest to you that these "restrictions, tensions, tightness, etc..." that you believe you are sensing are, in actuality, a product of your imagination. This is a very simple thing to verify, and since you have already indicated a willingness to put your claims to the test:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57311&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

I would be quite happy to try and design and undertake double blind trials in craniosacral therapy
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I suggest you do just this. You could even orgainze the trials to coincide with CST awareness week. Get a bunch of CST practitioners together and see if you can reliably and repeatedly detect these "restrictions" and/or the CS "pulse".

I'm sure we could suggest simple testing protocols.

You could even conduct your test as a preliminary for the JREF prize... it certainly would qualify.

Shall I hold my breath?

***Edited to correct spelling mistakes and clear various restrictions and blockages.***
 
Of course it is not all imagination. Next time you get the chance, go and just touch someone and it won't be long before you get an impression of what is going on with them.

I saw a friend of mine the other day who was stressed out with work. I put my hands on her shoulders and it was not long before I could feel a lot of heat coming from the area generally. I could also feel a stiffness and a tightness in her muscles. It really does not take very long to sense these kinds of things and you don't have to press hard either. You can easily tell if someone is hot or cold by putting your hand somewhere on their body. That is an impression and not all in the imagination at all.

Some new research is being undertaken at present into craniosacral therapy. This is being conducted by some craniosacral therapists who work at the Fountain Clinic in London. It is part of the Healthy Living Centre in Islington and I am sure that their therapists will be out and about in various places during Craniosacral Therapy awareness week.

www.fountain-clinic.co.uk
 
Sarah-I said:
Of course it is not all imagination. Next time you get the chance, go and just touch someone and it won't be long before you get an impression of what is going on with them.

I saw a friend of mine the other day who was stressed out with work. I put my hands on her shoulders and it was not long before I could feel a lot of heat coming from the area generally. I could also feel a stiffness and a tightness in her muscles. It really does not take very long to sense these kinds of things and you don't have to press hard either. You can easily tell if someone is hot or cold by putting your hand somewhere on their body. That is an impression and not all in the imagination at all.

Some new research is being undertaken at present into craniosacral therapy. This is being conducted by some craniosacral therapists who work at the Fountain Clinic in London. It is part of the Healthy Living Centre in Islington and I am sure that their therapists will be out and about in various places during Craniosacral Therapy awareness week.

www.fountain-clinic.co.uk
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You're telling me that it's just a matter temperature? Hot and cold spots on the body? Why do we need a CS therapists to determine this? Why not just use a thermometer? They're much more sensitive and accurate, and you don't even need to touch the patient to take a measurement:

ex-ir201-300.jpg
And they're pretty cheap to boot.

Come now, Sarah. We both know that CS practitioners claim to be sensing much more than just surface skin temperature. How about the CS "pulse" or "rhythm" that Dr. Upledger is always crowing about? You know, the one that CST practitioners can't seem to measure reliably when they're tested blind.

***edited to add:***

From the link you provided:

http://www.fountain-clinic.co.uk/02.htm

Restrictions in the body's functioning show up in the way that craniosacral motion is expressed. Craniosacral therapists are trained to feel this subtle motion in the body, and can use it to identify areas where there is congestion or restriction.
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I don't see anything here about hot and cold spots. Just reference to the "motion" I mentioned above.
 
Oh boy, you obviously can't read properly can you?

What I said was that YOU should try putting your hands on someone and see what you can feel. For you it might just be heat and cold and not a lot more, but it's a start.

As for me, yes, I can feel restrictions in the body that tells me where I need to go and work next and yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm. I can also feel the deeper levels too, which practitioners at the Fountain Clinic would be able to detect too, as they all practice Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy there.

So yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm and restrictions in the body.
 
Sarah-I said:
Oh boy, you obviously can't read properly can you?

What I said was that YOU should try putting your hands on someone and see what you can feel. For you it might just be heat and cold and not a lot more, but it's a start.

As for me, yes, I can feel restrictions in the body that tells me where I need to go and work next and yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm. I can also feel the deeper levels too, which practitioners at the Fountain Clinic would be able to detect too, as they all practice Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy there.

So yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm and restrictions in the body.
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I think you are missing the point here Sarah. Of course if we stare at things, or put our hands on things etc. we can get all sorts of sensations. But this does not in any way mean that those sensations are a result of anything external.
Our sense are not perfect and we can easily generate phantom sensations and misinterpret them.

That's why we carry out blinded trials to see if we are misinterpreting information or imaging sensations that are not a result of anything external.

This seems to be what you are doing.

There is obviously no way to 'feel' emotions with your hands.

But feeling tense muscles isn't too hard as they are phycical things to touch. So stress is easy for anyone to detect without any mystical abilities. Body language and, of course, what they actually tell you are pretty good indicators too.

I assume no blinded trials are ever done at this fountain-clinic place?
 
Sarah-I said:
In some cases yes, I have found the homeopathy to be ineffective and craniosacral therapy to be more effective.
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So, would you agree that if homeopathy is in fact ineffective in all instances, then observing that any other therapy is "more effective" could only lead you to conclude at most that there is no evidence that the alternative therapy is effective?
 
Sarah-I said:
Oh boy, you obviously can't read properly can you?

What I said was that YOU should try putting your hands on someone and see what you can feel. For you it might just be heat and cold and not a lot more, but it's a start.

As for me, yes, I can feel restrictions in the body that tells me where I need to go and work next and yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm. I can also feel the deeper levels too, which practitioners at the Fountain Clinic would be able to detect too, as they all practice Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy there.

So yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm and restrictions in the body.
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Smashing!

The next logical step would be to prove that what you're "feeling" isn't just a product of your own imagination, as I believe it most probably is. This would, theoretically, be a very simple thing to do... and it would net you ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Others have tried and failed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9806622&query_hl=7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8090842&query_hl=7

Perhaps you will be the one who succeeds...

perhaps not.
 
Sarah-I said:
...which practitioners at the Fountain Clinic would be able to detect too, as they all practice Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy there.
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This presupposes that craniosacral therapy actually works.
 
Ashles said:
I think you are missing the point here Sarah. Of course if we stare at things, or put our hands on things etc. we can get all sorts of sensations. But this does not in any way mean that those sensations are a result of anything external.
Our sense are not perfect and we can easily generate phantom sensations and misinterpret them.

That's why we carry out blinded trials to see if we are misinterpreting information or imaging sensations that are not a result of anything external.

This seems to be what you are doing.

There is obviously no way to 'feel' emotions with your hands.

But feeling tense muscles isn't too hard as they are phycical things to touch. So stress is easy for anyone to detect without any mystical abilities. Body language and, of course, what they actually tell you are pretty good indicators too.

I assume no blinded trials are ever done at this fountain-clinic place?
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Here's an interesting claim from The Fountain Clinic:

http://www.fountain-clinic.co.uk/01.htm

At the core of the body the cerebrospinal fluid, which bathes and cushions the brain and spinal cord, expresses this motion as a tide-like ebb and flow; while bones, organs and other structures of the body each follow their own particular pattern of movement. This motion is so subtle that it is barely measurable with instruments, but the hands of a trained therapist are able to perceive it.
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So the CS "rhythm" IS measurable by instruments? Really now? Pray tell, just what instruments might they be? A Scientology E-meter? A Ghostbusters PKE meter?

Here we go with this claim again... that human beings can measure some mysterious "force" better than any instrument. You'd think they'd be lining up at Randi's door with their magical detector hands.
 
Psiload said:
Here's an interesting claim from The Fountain Clinic:

http://www.fountain-clinic.co.uk/01.htm
"At the core of the body the cerebrospinal fluid, which bathes and cushions the brain and spinal cord, expresses this motion as a tide-like ebb and flow; while bones, organs and other structures of the body each follow their own particular pattern of movement. This motion is so subtle that it is barely measurable with instruments, but the hands of a trained therapist are able to perceive it."
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A closed fluid system ebbs and flows does it? Without any sort of pump?
These paranormal claims are really piling up now.

And if they are 'barely measurable', this implies that they have been measured.

The instruments used and the results would make interesting reading. Anywhere we can find the details?

And another claim about craniosacral therapy:
In response to physical knocks or emotional stress, the body's tissues contract. Sometimes, particularly when the shock is sever or occurs within an emotional situation, the tissues may stay contracted.
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Muscles aside (which are, er, designed to contract) is there any evidence whatsoever towards this claim?
 
Sarah-I said:
We also work at the sacrum and at any other places in the body where restrictions are felt.
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You can massage my sacrum anytime...... and "pick up (my) subtle patterns of motion within the body - rhythms, pulls, pulsations - emanating from deep within the core structures".

More seriously though, Sarah, you did this 2 year course which claims that :
"The following are just a few examples of the many conditions that might benefit from Cranio-Sacral treatment:"
It then goes on to list conditions which include:

Asthma, Ear Infections, Tonsillitis, Learning Difficulties, Autism, Epilepsy, Cerebral Palsy, and (worryingly) even Meningitis.

Would you care to provide us with the appropriate references for the studies which demonstrate CST's efficacy in any of these conditions?
 
Sarah-I said:
Of course it is not all imagination. Next time you get the chance, go and just touch someone and it won't be long before you get an impression of what is going on with them.
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I already know what the impression will be: "This person is wondering why the hell I'm touching him/her."
 
Sarah-I said:

As for me, yes, I can feel restrictions in the body that tells me where I need to go and work next and yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm. I can also feel the deeper levels too, which practitioners at the Fountain Clinic would be able to detect too, as they all practice Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy there.

So yes, I can feel the Cranial Rhythm and restrictions in the body.
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Do you, by any chance, get verbal feedback from your clients while performing this therapy?

If so, could that have anything to do with your ability to identify emotional issues?

And is Cranial Rhythm a proper noun that needs to be capitalized?
 
Yes, I do get verbal feedback from my clients, but not all the time. I once treated a man and found that I needed to treat his diphragm area. He was not emotional before I went there and did not speak, however, when I went and placed a hand there, slowly the area began to soften and he took a deep breath and then started to cry. He then sobbed and was able to let go of all the emotion that he had been holding in this area.

He felt a lot better after this session. I agree that you cannot feel emotions per se, but there is a definite quality to the tissues where things are held. When the releases occur this tissues soften.
 
Sarah-I said:
Yes, I do get verbal feedback from my clients, but not all the time. I once treated a man and found that I needed to treat his diphragm area. He was not emotional before I went there and did not speak, however, when I went and placed a hand there, slowly the area began to soften and he took a deep breath and then started to cry. He then sobbed and was able to let go of all the emotion that he had been holding in this area.

He felt a lot better after this session. I agree that you cannot feel emotions per se, but there is a definite quality to the tissues where things are held. When the releases occur this tissues soften.
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Did you speak to him during this process? Ask him questions? Pick up any other clues from him? Think carefully now...
 
It's rather telling that out of all the possible posts Sarah could have responded to - asking things as diverse as double blind testing, the possibility of imagining a response, challenging her interpretations - the one she answers has to do with personal interaction, as if the truth of the exercise is in the patient's own feedback.

Sarah, are you at all willing to understand where the faults lie in this? How is it so hard to comprehend why this is an erroneous approach? Human senses are fallible, afterall, yet you place so much trust in your own that you are willing to bet somebody's health on it.

Scary.

Athon
 
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