• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

It CAN Happen Here....

uke2se said:
Situation now is very different from when Bush was president.

Do you think him trying and failing to implement laws that go against US values (well, human values really) is an ok state of being, and that speaking up against it is being breathlessly hysterical?
Click to expand...

I don't think speaking against any perceived wrong-doing is in any way hysterical, unless you're doing something truly ridiculous in your attempt to speak out, like some freedom-fighter.

That said, I honestly don't see this major meltdown. As others have stated, Trump trying to get things done, and Trump actually getting things done, are two different beasts entirely.

The world was buggered lonnnnng before Trump and it'll be buggered lonnnng after Trump. Same ****, different generation, imo.
 
Bob001 said:
No, we didn't. GW Bush had been a successful two-term governor of Texas, and as the son of a President and grandson of a Senator his family had a long history of public service. Bush made some terrible misjudgments, but he made them within the range of normal political debate. Trump's contempt for the judiciary ("so-called judges") and the "fake news" media, his blatant racism, his demeaning our allies while pandering to our enemies, his undisguised corruption and his fundamental stupidity about basic matters of fact are unparalleled. No one could imagine that Bush could launch nuclear war out of pique; with Trump, we can't be sure.
Click to expand...

The world was up in arms about Bush at the time, lol. You don't remember the massive outcry against him and Blair for all of their perceived wrongdoings? The "Not My President" t-shirts? Same ****, different day.

Everyone assumed the world was going to hell in a hand-basket when Bush was reigning supreme...Yet here we are, surviving. No doubt when Vince Mcmahon, of WWE fame, gets into office, you'll be wishing you still had Donald Flump. :p
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
The world was up in arms about Bush at the time, lol. You don't remember the massive outcry against him and Blair for all of their perceived wrongdoings? The "Not My President" t-shirts? Same ****, different day.

Everyone assumed the world was going to hell in a hand-basket when Bush was reigning supreme...Yet here we are, surviving. No doubt when Vince Mcmahon, of WWE fame, gets into office, you'll be wishing you still had Donald Flump. :p
Click to expand...

You did have two wars and tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands, if not millions if you count civillian casualties) dead and wounded, and a severely damaged economy. But sure, the world didn't end. Seems like a low bar, but YMMV.

The situation now is still different, though. Bush wasn't mounting an all out assault on the concept of separation of power and the free press. Trump is.
 
uke2se said:
You did have two wars and tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands, if not millions if you count civillian casualties) dead and wounded, and a severely damaged economy. But sure, the world didn't end. Seems like a low bar, but YMMV.

The situation now is still different, though. Bush wasn't mounting an all out assault on the concept of separation of power and the free press. Trump is.
Click to expand...

The Iraq War also destabilized the region. There'd be no ISIS without it. The Bush/Blair alliance did significant damage to the world at large. If your going to compare everything to the end of the world then we're always doing better but that's a super low bar to set.
 
uke2se said:
You did have two wars and tens of thousands (hundreds of thousands, if not millions if you count civillian casualties) dead and wounded, and a severely damaged economy. But sure, the world didn't end. Seems like a low bar, but YMMV.

The situation now is still different, though. Bush wasn't mounting an all out assault on the concept of separation of power and the free press. Trump is.
Click to expand...

I don't think either is better or worse, really. I think Bush was as crooked as they come, and so is Trump. Imho, anyone who's getting into office is going to be crooked, which is why I don't concern myself with it.

Bush/Blair were horrendous bastards, and we can go back in history and see a trend of other horrendous bastards. Trump, imho, is merely yet another of many horrendous bastards, and no doubt there'll be more to come after him.

I get the worry, as we live in worrying times, but so did our parents, and their parents, and their parents parents. We hope our children won't have to live in worrying times, but I don't need a magic 8-ball to predict that they likely will.
 
Gilbert Syndrome said:
I don't think either is better or worse, really. I think Bush was as crooked as they come, and so is Trump. Imho, anyone who's getting into office is going to be crooked, which is why I don't concern myself with it.

Bush/Blair were horrendous bastards, and we can go back in history and see a trend of other horrendous bastards. Trump, imho, is merely yet another of many horrendous bastards, and no doubt there'll be more to come after him.

I get the worry, as we live in worrying times, but so did our parents, and their parents, and their parents parents. We hope our children won't have to live in worrying times, but I don't need a magic 8-ball to predict that they likely will.
Click to expand...

Yeah, things will be bad in the future as well, especially if people keep voting in people like Trump. You are missing my point though. The situation now is unlike any situation before, because what Trump and his cronies are doing is to attack the democratic institutions in the US. The closest we really get is Nixon, but even he had a lot of respect for democratic institutions. Trump has no such respect, and his cronies seem to a large extent be dead set on dismantling the checks and balances that exist to prevent them from instituting their agenda.

The 2016 elections were unfair - with massive foreign influence on top of gerrymandered districts and voter surpression. Future elections stand to be even less fair unless the GOP agenda is stopped pretty much immediately.
 
Stacko said:
The Iraq War also destabilized the region. There'd be no ISIS without it. The Bush/Blair alliance did significant damage to the world at large. If your going to compare everything to the end of the world then we're always doing better but that's a super low bar to set.
Click to expand...

And let's not forget the chaos Bush left behind in Lybia.
Or was that Clinton liberating syria, "We came we saw he died"-style?

I have come to the conclusion that I prefer republicans in the white house. Foreign policy doesn't change, but at least when a republican does it it gets protested.
 
I doubt that I am the only one here olde enough to remember the rumors that Nixon was going to declare himself KING!.

But the threat I see today is from the other side, remaking America into something many think is Un-American.

Choose your rumors.
 
casebro said:
I doubt that I am the only one here olde enough to remember the rumors that Nixon was going to declare himself KING!.

But the threat I see today is from the other side, remaking America into something many think is Un-American.

Choose your rumors.
Click to expand...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

And we don't have to rely on rumors about Trump.
 
Bob001 said:
Yeah, she spent her childhood in Soviet Moscow, and she returned to work in Moscow as an adult for many years. She returned to the U.S. after butting heads with the government too many times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen
Click to expand...

Yes. And one might argue how "first hand" your experience of a government is up to the age of 14. I am fairly certain though that she wasn't allowed to vote or be elected when she was in the Soviet Union.

But as a former director for radio liberty she sure has first hand exprience in distributing propaganda.
 
uke2se said:
Yeah, things will be bad in the future as well, especially if people keep voting in people like Trump. You are missing my point though. The situation now is unlike any situation before, because what Trump and his cronies are doing is to attack the democratic institutions in the US. The closest we really get is Nixon, but even he had a lot of respect for democratic institutions. Trump has no such respect, and his cronies seem to a large extent be dead set on dismantling the checks and balances that exist to prevent them from instituting their agenda.

The 2016 elections were unfair - with massive foreign influence on top of gerrymandered districts and voter surpression. Future elections stand to be even less fair unless the GOP agenda is stopped pretty much immediately.
Click to expand...


I agree with GilbertSyndrome. Everyone thinks their generation has/had it tougher. The hysteria these days is at fever pitch, largely due to the press.

The country is full of spoiled whiny brats, of course they are going to think this is doomsday. I don't think I've ever used the term 'snowflake" but ya, that fits in this situation.

I'm concerned about the government, but then I always am. It's like the boy who cried wolf. Quit crying so gawdamn much and maybe people will actually listen. I'm really tired of sorting through the noise. I've never seen so much crying in my life, and the whole "end of the world" thing is no surprise when you consider the coddling PC movement.

"Oh my gawd Trump is dismantling the government, Hitler doom!" Never seen so much over the top silliness in my life.
 
Last edited:
I remember a former poster on the JREF saying that Bush (W) was going to end democracy in the USA. Now folks are crying wolf again.

Sad.
 
uke2se said:
She's not a poster on a forum of right wing nit-pickers. She doesn't have to prove anything to you. Either google it or wallow in ignorance.
Click to expand...
Exactly right, she's not a poster on a right-wing forum, she's someone given credibility by the Washington Post. She does behave like Alex Jones when she says that secret, anonymous experts say authoritarianism is running rife in the political system. You know who else says to "Google it" on a regular basis instead of providing direct sources? Alex Jones.




Yes, fighting hate is agenda driven and highly biased, especially against the right.
Click to expand...
The SPLC has such high standards of who and what they put on their extremist list that the far right wing extremist group change.org had to get behind a petition to force them to remove two people from the list anti-Muslim extremists. https://www.change.org/p/southern-p...rom-the-splc-s-list-of-anti-muslim-extremists




She doesn't claim that at all. You are lying.
Click to expand...
It's obvious you don't care about the links I post, Siskind claims that (unattributed) reports of genital grabbing is proof of Trump's authoritarianism in her blog.




So half is the same as none. Got it.
Click to expand...
Siskind set the standard, not me.




Google it.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Alex.
 
casebro said:
I doubt that I am the only one here olde enough to remember the rumors that Nixon was going to declare himself KING!.
Click to expand...


I'm not old enough to remember Nixon, but I am old enough to remember nutty Christian doomsday preachers claiming that the next president of the United States was going to be the antichrist after George HW Bush's "New World Order" speech. I also remember claims that George W. Bush was going to launch a nuclear war against Iran and appoint himself dictator. I also remember when Obama was going to assassinate Trump and appoint himself to a third term.

The difference between now and then is I had to get that information from shortwave radio and conspiracy websites, now I can just go to the Washington Post instead.
 
mgidm86 said:
I agree with GilbertSyndrome. Everyone thinks their generation has/had it tougher.
Click to expand...
You're wrong. It may not be worse, but the situation today is unlike any before. Nobody knows how it will turn out because we haven't been here before.

But if we are just talking about 'tougher', compared to past generations we have never had it so good. Some us believe that we can continue to improve, but many want to return to the bad old days when things were tougher. I hope we can prevent that, but the ways things are going...

I don't think I've ever used the term 'snowflake" but ya, that fits in this situation.
Click to expand...
'snowflake'? Deplorable.
 
magellan said:
Yes. And one might argue how "first hand" your experience of a government is up to the age of 14. I am fairly certain though that she wasn't allowed to vote or be elected when she was in the Soviet Union.

But as a former director for radio liberty she sure has first hand exprience in distributing propaganda.
Click to expand...

So where do you think she is wrong in her assessments?
 
casebro said:
I doubt that I am the only one here olde enough to remember the rumors that Nixon was going to declare himself KING!.
Click to expand...
You must have moved in some peculiar circles.

Are you quite sure you don't remember hearing reports that other people were spreading and beleiving rumours that Nixon was going to declare himself King?

Are you at all sure that your perception of what those other people think isn't based on report rather than experience?
 
uke2se said:
There are none so blind as those who will not see.

And we don't have to rely on rumors about Trump.
Click to expand...
Trump is up-front, you have to give him that.

Sidebar : do you remember hearing rumours that Nixon was going to declare himself King? Are you old enough? I am, and was paying attention at the time, and do not share casebro's recollection.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom