Isreal: no ancient right to Jerusalem?

davefoc said:
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As to the question as to whether today's Israelis are the same people who lived there 3000 years ago my guess would be that the Palestinians are more closely related to these folks than most of the Israeli Jews who .have a lot of European genes floating around in them. It seems that those who use ancient history to justify the setting up of a Jewish state have decided that the ancestors of those biblical Jews who converted to Islam or Christianity lost some of their rights to that land.

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There have been genetic studies carried out that seem to support your view, have a look at the Palestinian entry in Wikipedia (the section I am referring to has many references so its accuracy can be quickly checked) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian

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As genetic techniques have advanced, it has become possible to look directly into the question of the ancestry of the Palestinians. In recent years, many genetic surveys have suggested that Jews and Palestinians (and in some cases other Levantines) are genetically closer to each other than either is to the Arabs of Arabia or to Europeans [6] [7] [8] [9]. (this collection contains more links to genetic studies of Jewish and middle eastern populations.) These studies look at the prevalence of specific inherited genetic differences (polymorphism) among populations, which then allow the relatedness of these populations to be determined, and their ancestry to be traced back (see population genetics). These differences can be the cause of genetic disease or be completely neutral (see Single nucleotide polymorphism) ; they can be inherited maternally (mitochondrial DNA), paternally (Y chromosome), or as a mixture from both parents ; the results obtained may vary from polymorphism to polymorphism. One study [10]on congenital deafness identified an allele only found in Palestinian and Ashkenazi communities, suggesting a common origin ; an investigation [11] of a Y-chromosome polymorphism found Lebanese, Palestinian, and Sephardic populations to be particularly closely related ; a third study [12], looking at Human leukocyte antigen differences among a broad range of populations, found Palestinians to be particularly closely related to Ashkenazi and non-Ashkenazi Jews, as well as Middle-Eastern and Mediterranean populations. (The latter study by Antonio Arnaiz-Villena has been the subject of intense controversy, it was retracted by the journal and removed from its website, leading to further controversy; the main accusations made were that the authors used their scientific findings to justify making one-sided political proclamations in the paper; that the retraction followed lobbyist pressure because the results contradicted certain political beliefs; some suggested that the broad scientific interpretation was based on too narrow data [13], whereas others support the scientific content as valid - for more information on the controversy : [14], [15], [16], [17].) If this close relatedness is true, it would confirm both Jews' and Palestinians' historical claims, suggesting a common Northwest Semitic ancestry. However, the results are complex, much work remains to be carried out, and partial results can be interpreted to suit diverse political agendas.

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headscratcher4 said:
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However, it seems to me, that when you bring god into it...and it always seems to be that way in the Middle East...than you lose the ability to negotiate and resolve outstanding issues. How do you back down and give away something god has given you without being damned?

It would be quite convenient if God could find a handy bush say at the next meeting at Camp David, and take sometime and say "Sorry if I wasn’t very clear last time, what I really meant was..." ;)

I do think situations like this demonstrate the terrible harm that can be caused by holding an irrational faith. Since they are irrational rational processes like negotiation and compromise just will not work. And when that irrational faith is then codified and expanded to become a religion it can then provide a framework to excuse the most terrible and inhumane acts imaginable.
 

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