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Israels Universal Healthcare

Oliver

Penultimate Amazing
Oliver
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
17,396
All I know about Israel's universal health care system I learned from Wikipedia - and according to Wiki, they seem to have a pretty good one, even if WHO's ranking of their UHC-system does not seem to be a matter of euphoria.

However, I never saw one single Conservative claiming that Israel's health system is socialism, communism or downright unamerican - despite the Heil Hitler remark about it, of course.

My question is: Why isn't Israel's UHC a matter of controversy in contrast to all the "socialistic", "communistic" UHC's around the world being ridiculed and criticized all the time from those same Conservatives? Is Israels system less Government controlled, less Tax related, less socialistic and less communistic? :confused:

Or in other words: Why doesn't the US adopt Israel's system if there isn't anything to critizise about it? :)
 
Cleon said:
Can't imagine why that would be.
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I think maybe you misunderstood his question. He means why would a system like that in Israel not be considered un-American but those of other countries (like Canada) be considered un-American were we in the U.S. to adopt it.

That is, the argument against a single-payer, government administered system is that they're socialist or hurt the free market or some such. If that's so, then that same criticism should be leveled against the system in a country we pretty much financially underwrite.
_____

This isn't an answer to the question you're asking, DC, but it annoys me that my income is lower than the median income of Israel, and I can't afford health insurance, but I do pay taxes that contribute a small portion to the huge amounts of money we give to Israel.
 
Doctor Evil said:
:D

That may prove to be a too subtle hint.
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No. It's a misreading of the question. When Oliver asked:

Oliver said:
Or in other words: Why doesn't the US adopt Israel's system if there isn't anything to critizise about it? :)
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(With tongue in cheek, I think.) He wasn't saying that we should keep the system in Hebrew and keep all the Israeli bureaucrats and just move them from there to here to run our healthcare system. Saying it's "unamerican" (meaning contrary to our ideals) because it's an Israeli system misses the point.

The point was, I believe, if their system isn't also socialist or whatever the complaints are against the UK, French or Canadian systems, then there's nothing inherently wrong with a system like this.

My addition to it, if the system is so horribly wrong, then why are we financially propping up a government that runs such a thing?

ETA: Perhaps the misreading hinges on taking "unamerican" to mean "not American"? Sen. McCarthy's red scare committte, the House Committee on Unamerican Activities, targeted Americans as practicing "unamerican" activities. So "unamerican" doesn't mean "not American"--at least when used this way. It means contrary to (someone's idea of) our ideals or traditions or some such.
 
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JoeTheJuggler said:
snip
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This isn't an answer to the question you're asking, DC, but it annoys me that my income is lower than the median income of Israel, and I can't afford health insurance, but I do pay taxes that contribute a small portion to the huge amounts of money we give to Israel.
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:confused:
thanks for the info
and what question was i asking?
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
(With tongue in cheek, I think.) He wasn't saying that we should keep the system in Hebrew and keep all the Israeli bureaucrats and just move them from there to here to run our healthcare system. Saying it's "unamerican" (meaning contrary to our ideals) because it's an Israeli system misses the point.

The point was, I believe, if their system isn't also socialist or whatever the complaints are against the UK, French or Canadian systems, then there's nothing inherently wrong with a system like this.

My addition to it, if the system is so horribly wrong, then why are we financially propping up a government that runs such a thing?

ETA: Perhaps the misreading hinges on taking "unamerican" to mean "not American"? Sen. McCarthy's red scare committte, the House Committee on Unamerican Activities, targeted Americans as practicing "unamerican" activities. So "unamerican" doesn't mean "not American"--at least when used this way. It means contrary to (someone's idea of) our ideals or traditions or some such.
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You are charging at windmills here. I can not speak fro Cleon, but I was mostly amused by this:
However, I never saw one single Conservative claiming that Israel's health system is socialism, communism or downright unamerican - despite the Heil Hitler remark about it, of course.
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Frankly, the idea that US politician should refer to a foreign system and give it various ideological labels is absurd. Moreover, Oliver chose Israel as it is clear that he find it hard to think of it as a separate country. It becomes more amusing when you realize that Israel's health system definitely started as a socialist one. Even after privatization the government regulate directly many aspects of it. (I am not claiming that the system is bad. Just noting that Oliver's characterization of it is wrong.)

I am actually in favor of a universal health care system. But, I did not had the time to look closely into the details of the administration plan, and therefore did not involved myself in that debate.
 
Doctor Evil said:
You are charging at windmills here. I can not speak fro Cleon, but I was mostly amused by this:

Frankly, the idea that US politician should refer to a foreign system and give it various ideological labels is absurd.
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I don't think "conservative" was meant to refer to a politician, but rather to people ranting at town hall meetings and such.

You don't think these nuts are saying this sort of thing? Have you heard about the exchange Barney Franks had with someone getting her information and the poster from the LaRouchePac website?

Maybe I'm misreading this, but I think this is the sort of rhetoric Oliver is referring to.
 
You got your Israel thread in my health care debate!

No, you got your health care debate in my Israel thread!

It's the two great tastes that go great together!
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
You got your Israel thread in my health care debate!

No, you got your health care debate in my Israel thread!

It's the two great tastes that go great together!
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Yes, but like all great cocktails, two ingredients which go great together aren't QUITE enough. You need a little tiny bit of some garnish or bitter or taste-changer or something. Let's see....

Just like the Nazis, the Hitler-like Israel...
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There. Now it's a PERFECT thread.
 
I don't remember Conservatives complaining about the Luxembourg health system either or the Lichtenstein system or the Latvian or Lithuanian systems.

What is it with Conservatives and ignoring countries that start with L?
 
I've heard that outside the US there are foreigners everywhere! (shudders)
 
America is not Israel. America should not be compared to Israel. America cannot be compared to Israel. Israel is full of Jews. America is not full of Jews.

What was my point again?
 
gtc said:
I don't remember Conservatives complaining about the Luxembourg health system either or the Lichtenstein system or the Latvian or Lithuanian systems.

What is it with Conservatives and ignoring countries that start with L?
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Well, I suppose that comparing the own Health Care System with those of the strongest allies wouldn't be that stupid to start with. And as I said, Israel, the USA's strongest ally, does seem to have a pretty good system. Yet, pointing that out does not seem to be in the interest of those hypocrites that call themselves conservative while whining about foreign systems. ;)
 
I just looked at the Wiki link. It looks like a good system, very similar to several of the systems the anti-Obama brigade are damning vociferously as evil communism.

I wonder why none of these people has appeared on this thread?

Rolfe.
 
gtc said:
I don't remember Conservatives complaining about the Luxembourg health system either or the Lichtenstein system or the Latvian or Lithuanian systems.

What is it with Conservatives and ignoring countries that start with L?
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If your point is that those countries bear the same relationship to conservative policy as Israel, you're wrong.

Not only has there been no expression of disapproval comparing Israel's healthcare system to Obama's proposals, but over the years, we've given more money to Israel (not a developing nation) than any other country.

So, if the criticism is that we shouldn't spend our tax dollars on something like a universal healthcare plan here, why are we doing it in Israel?
 
Pardalis said:
In Oliver's world, Israel is a US state.
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Doctor Evil said:
Moreover, Oliver chose Israel as it is clear that he find it hard to think of it as a separate country.
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Interesting criticism. Oliver brought up Israel, I think, as a response to critics of Obama's proposals who cite such "failures" of socialized medicine as Canada and the UK. So is it fair to say those critics think of Canada and the UK as US states?

For that matter, I'm quite sure there are US states that receive fewer federal tax dollars (net) than Israel does! This is NOT an argument that Israel should be considered a US state, but that discussion of Israel is pertinent to the US budget. If we shouldn't adopt a system like Canada's because it's "socialism" or "unamerican", then we probably shouldn't finance a similar system in Israel.
 
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