Israeli extremists to burn Obama in effigy

[Darth Rotor]

That was the first time in my life I didn't get a Python reference. A sad day for me.

I'm here for you.

We can't all be Doctor bloody Bernovski, ya know.

 

[Thunder]

The Americans aren't (for the most part) Jews, so the Parky double standard doesn't apply.

yes, because the only people I ever critisize on JREF, are Jewish.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5857486#post5857486

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5870729#post5870729

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5856524#post5856524

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5814877#post5814877

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5818154#post5818154

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5826406#post5826406

 

[MikeMangum]

Support? No. Allow? Yes.

^ This.

 

[MikeMangum]

I wonder how folks here would feel about Neo-Nazis marching through a Jewish neighborhood, while burning Israeli flags, and burning American Jewish leaders in effigy.

Oh, I am sure they would totally support it. Its just free speech, after all.

You should change your name again. Try Rip van Winkle

http://www.ringospictures.com/photos/20100320/010.jpg
http://www.ringospictures.com/photos/20100320/008.jpg

Edited by LashL: 

Do not hotlink images. Please see Rule 5.

 

[Skeptic]

The bigotry against Israel shown by the overheated criticism here has nothing to do with Israel being beyond criticism. It is with the double, or rather triple standard used in the criticism: one for the Arab world, which can do anything it wants; one for the USA or the West in general, which is a more reasonable one; and one for Israel, which is always guilty and has to pass impossibly stringent conditions.

If the same standard more or less is applied across the board, that's one thing. Quite a few posters here apply this standard. They looked at the "evil Israeli crime" in question, and, unsurprisingly, noted that it's as most a few nuts in Israel burn Obama in effigy -- not particularly more noteworthy than, say, some nuts in Morocco burning Bush in effigy (or similar nuts in San Francisco, to mention another somewhat hostile foreign country, do the same thing...). I am sure most of these posters would also condemn, say, an Israeli man who randomly shot Arabs for no reason (yes, yes, I know there are Israeli Arabs too, don't write in, OK?). But that would hardly be antisemitic, or anti-zionist, since they would equally condemn an Arab who shot Israelies like that or, say, a Norwegian who shot Swiss.

But when one's standard is to totally ignore Americans burning a US president in effigy (as one probably should most of the time) -- standard #1 -- go completely berserk over Israelies doing the same thing -- standard #2 -- and then apologize for Hamas, not for burning someone in effigy, but with claims to the effect of "but they just want to genocide all Jews in a limited area, not all over the world" or "they don't all deny the holocaust" -- standard #3 -- the triple standard, and the antisemitic bias (or, as such bias is euphemistically known today, "anti-zionist" bias), are quite clear.

 

[Thunder]

The bigotry against Israel shown by the overheated criticism here has nothing to do with Israel being beyond criticism. It is with the double, or rather triple standard used in the criticism

Nations that demand a double-standard.....deserve just that.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Oh, I thought you abandoned this thread already Parky due to yet another embarrassing bout of short-sightedness and hypocrisy, but here you are again with another golden nugget of drivel.

 

[Thunder]

Oh, I thought you abandoned this thread already Parky due to yet another embarrassing bout of short-sightedness and hypocrisy, but here you are again with another golden nugget of drivel.

do you not agree that nations that demand to be treated with a double-standard, deserve just that?

 

[Thunder]

Israel and Israelis, time and time again, declare themselves to be the one true democracy, in the Middle East. They declare themselves to be the only Western-style society..in the Middle East. They declare themselves to be the only nation in the Middle East with true freedom of the press, freedom of worship, freedom of association.

Israel and Israelis DEMAND a special political/economic/defense relationship with the USA, one that is different than with the other Middle Eastern states, because of this.

And so, we should hold Israel to such standards, and treat them with such a double-standard.

Sometimes, baby, you get just what you wish for.

 

[Skeptic]

You got to love the reflexive, indeed, unconscious double standard of most "anti-zionists".

Whenever Arabs burn the US president in effigy, they explain it is a sign the "Arab Street" is angry and the USA must immediately abandon Israel to appease them.

When a few Jews do the same, is this a sign the "Jewish street" is angry and the USA must immediately abandon, say, Egypt to appease it?

No, it is a sign the Jews are being uppity again and the USA must abandon Israel to punish them.

 

[Thunder]

Whenever Arabs burn the US president in effigy, they explain it is a sign the "Arab Street" is angry and the USA must immediately abandon Israel to appease them.

perhaps in your imagination.

oh, I forgot. demanding that Israel stop building settlements in the West Bank in order to restart peace-talks, is tantamount to "abandoning Israel". Cause we ALL know...that if you are against the settlements, you are against Israel and are a self-hating Jew.

is that what yuoi are trying to say..."Skeptic"?

 

[bigjelmapro]

do you not agree that nations that demand to be treated with a double-standard, deserve just that?

How come you sound like a broken record? Do all threads lead to the same rhetoric filled conclusion? Stick to your whinging of Israel to at most a dozen threads at a time.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Israel and Israelis DEMAND a special political/economic/defense relationship with the USA, one that is different than with the other Middle Eastern states, because of this.

Different how? From the UAE? Nope. Egypt? Nope. Iraq? Nope. Qatar? Nope. Saudi Arabia? Nope. Yemen? Nope. Nothing special about it besides the amount bit. Mind you, most of these other ME countries buy their military hardware and technology from not only the US, but from the EU, Russia, and China to name a few. Israel is mainly restricted to the US because of the need for the US to have a monopoly when it comes to Israel. Same deal led to the end of the Israeli-based avionics program ended for US-based hardware.

Any more simpleton allegations?

And so, we should hold Israel to such standards, and treat them with such a double-standard.

You mean a double standard from the loonie extreme leftists? As if that would ever change. They hold everybody to a different, utopian standard. So rhetoric in n+1 thread you post in, surprise, surprise..

 

[Skeptic]

do you not agree that nations that demand to be treated with a double-standard, deserve just that

Every bigot, when confronted with the fact that he uses an obviously unfair double standard, claims that the hated group deserves to be treated unfairly and has it coming.

One of the most common ways of self-justification and projecting blame is to claim the hated group itself "demands" a double standard and therefore has no business complaining about unfair treatment -- e.g., that it's OK for the bigot to, say, not hire Blacks as a "correction" for affirmative action.

After all, do you not agree that races that demand to be treated with a double standard, deserve just that?

There are two obvious problem with the bigot's claim, however:

1). Two wrongs don't make a right, so even if the hated group demanded a double standard in its own favor, this hardly justifies the bigot using a double standard against it "in retaliation".

2).The double standard allegedly "demanded" by the hated group exists mostly in the bigot's imagination, where every disagreement or protest from the hated group about anything is misinterpreted as a "demand for double standard", so as to justify the bigot, in his own mind, in treating the hated group with a double standard in return.

But we at least have a frank admission of using a double standard. Recognizing one's bigotry is certainly a start. At least it's better than not even realizing one is using a double standard.

 

[WildCat]

How come you sound like a broken record? Do all threads lead to the same rhetoric filled conclusion? Stick to your whinging of Israel to at most a dozen threads at a time.

I reiterate my call to the mods to merge all of parky/Thunders Israel threads into one ginormous "parky/Thunder's Israel Sucks" thread.





Yes, that's sarcasm

 

[Thunder]

to sum up the last several post here:

"Israel deserves to be treated with a special double-standard. They should be treated differently than the other states in the Middle East. They should be allowed to do things that other Western-style liberal democracies are strongly criticized and sanctioned for"

now.....why exactly should Israel receive this special treatment? That is what I would like to know.

 

[mortimer]

to sum up the last several post here:

"Israel deserves to be treated with a special double-standard. They should be treated differently than the other states in the Middle East. They should be allowed to do things that other Western-style liberal democracies are strongly criticized and sanctioned for"

now.....why exactly should Israel receive this special treatment? That is what I would like to know.

That's quite a strawman you've built there. Nobody's said anything of the sort.

 

[Thunder]

That's quite a strawman you've built there. Nobody's said anything of the sort.

when people argue year after year, that Israel has a special relationship with the USA, that Israel is the only "true" democracy in the Middle East, that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that respects freedom of the press, association, and religious practice,

AND

that Israel is the only nation in the Middle East that has the right to hundreds of undeclared nuclear weapons and to not join the NPT, that Israel has the right to illegally annex land conquered in war time, that Israel has the right to confiscate privately owned land in occupied territory and use that land for civilian settlements, that Israel has the right to rule over occupied land while NOT offering the local population the right to vote..

than people are INDEED suggesting that Israel should be treated with a very double-standard.

they are basically saying that Israel is a western-style liberal democracy, but should not be expected to act as one.

I know it. You know it. We all know it. But only a few of us acknowledge it.

a very wise Jew once said: "The truth shall set you free". Acknowledge the truth of the occupation, and set yourself free of the burden of lies and deceit.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I read the link, the first post and the last few posts. I am skipping everything else even suspecting this has already been covered.

An outlawed party and terrorist organization, by Israeli government rules, chooses to equate Barack Obama as an enemy of the Jewish people on par with the usual targets as Hitler and Hussein.

This is news how? This is like discussing Neo-Nazis burning Joe Lieberman in effigy as an enemy of the Whitish people. I do not even see how this reflects poorly on nation of Israel any more than than radical illegal white supremacist groups reflect badly on the US.

In my opinion the best way to combat speech such as this is to confront it or to ignore it. In this case, I am choosing to ignore it. It is so far removed from my life that I am not concerned enough to put out the effort of confrontation. These are idiots. They do not represent Israel. I think it would be a mistake to enforce laws to ban this type of speech in Israel.

To continue on that last point, Israel generally ranks well in regards to Freedom of Speech and Press though it had major issues during 2002 and 2009. I disagree with some elements of their laws, particularly the grouping of formenting contempt or hatred of the state and creating discontent and resent among the people as falling under their sedition laws. I agree with the parts that make illegal promoting changing enactments by illegal means an element of sedition. Issues like this are not the main factor but do contribute to why it is not considered in the same range of Press and Speech freedom as the US and western Europe, let alone top contenders such as Northern Europe. I would rather see Israel achieve greater freedom, not less.

 

[KingMerv00]

when people argue year after year, that Israel has a special relationship with the USA, that Israel is the only "true" democracy in the Middle East, that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that respects freedom of the press, association, and religious practice,

AND

that Israel is the only nation in the Middle East that has the right to hundreds of undeclared nuclear weapons and to not join the NPT, that Israel has the right to illegally annex land conquered in war time, that Israel has the right to confiscate privately owned land in occupied territory and use that land for civilian settlements, that Israel has the right to rule over occupied land while NOT offering the local population the right to vote..

than people are INDEED suggesting that Israel should be treated with a very double-standard.

they are basically saying that Israel is a western-style liberal democracy, but should not be expected to act as one.

I know it. You know it. We all know it. But only a few of us acknowledge it.

a very wise Jew once said: "The truth shall set you free". Acknowledge the truth of the occupation, and set yourself free of the burden of lies and deceit.

What does any of that have to do with effigies?