Israeli Election Thread

[geni]

Possibly. But what if they fall to the Islamists?

Find somewhere else to live. Try the DRC. It's been too peaceful there lately.


More seriously due to serrious US backing of the IDF isreal can pretty much define it's boarders as where ever it wants them to be (unless they are inside lebanon I understand that the last attempt to occupy part of that place didn't work out too well).

 

[zenith-nadir]

Results with 99.67 percent of votes counted:

 

[geni]

What happens if a collerlition can't be formed?

 

[zenith-nadir]

What happens if a collerlition can't be formed?

Who knows, now that the vote is in coalition negotiations with different parties will begin.

The part that worries me the most is not socio-economic issues but negotiations with the Palestinians. Since Hamas, a designated terrorist organization recognized as such by the EU, US, Canada and Israel - now runs the PA and just yesterday the new Hamas cabinet was sworn in to chants of "Allahu Akbar" and "The Koran is our constitution, Mohammed is our prophet, jihad [holy war] is our path and dying for the sake of Allah is our biggest wish", I expect that the government will offer the Palestinians one last chance and then followthrough with withdrawing from areas of the West Bank and laying down borders coalition or no coalition.

 

[David Swidler]

I disagree. Olmert's victory speech actually emphasized social stuff, putting the Palestinian track on the back burner for now. Without a coalition the government can't do much of anything, and the really fateful decisions will require a majority coalition.

That coalition will probably be one with Labor, Shas, United Torah Judaism and possibly the Pensioners. Kadima will have to relinquish some important ministries (and deputy positions) and commit to all sorts of social(ist) legislation - not to mention money for religious institutions - in order to get a stable coalition.

Whether or not negotiations with the Palestinians take place concurrent with coalition negotiations is an open question, and I can see Olmert going either way. But certainly nothing of that nature will get off the ground until after Passover, i.e. three weeks hence.

 

[Mycroft]

Whoa! Likud got spanked!

I would've liked Kadima to take it in the shorts, too, but at least that flaming gasbag Netanyahu's out of the game.

What's your issue with Kadima?

 

[Darat]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4855154.stm

Acting Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has declared victory in the election, vowing to push ahead with plans to define Israel's final borders.

....snip...

The Kadima leader told his party he was prepared to hold peace talks with the Palestinians but would act alone if he had to, to establish permanent borders for Israel by 2010.

...snip...

Sensible and the rest of his speech was very reasonable.

 

[zenith-nadir]

Sensible and the rest of his speech was very reasonable.

I enjoyed Abbas's hypocrisy in response to Olmerts speach:

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said the "result was expected", but that Mr Olmert should return to the internationally-backed roadmap peace plan and "abandon his unilateral plans to fix the borders".

Gosh, what is the first sentence,... in fact, what are the first 18 words of the Roadmap?... that Abbas wants Olmert to "return to":

In Phase I, the Palestinians immediately undertake an unconditional cessation of violence according to the steps outlined below;

Palestinian militants from the Fatah movement march with their weapons through the center of Gaza City, Tuesday, March 28, 2006, announcing responsibility for the death of two shepherds killed in an explosion near an agricultural community of Nahal Oz in southern Israel, along the border with the Gaza Strip, Israel, Tuesday March 28, 2006. (AP Photo/Anja Niedringhaus)

(emphasis mine)

Who is the head of Fatah? Why it's Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas. You know, the guy who is demanding that Olmert should return to the roadmap.


{edited to add}

Mar. 29, 2006 15:23

The haredi Nahal unit of the IDF captured an 18-year-old Palestinian suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt at the Beka'ot roadblock in the Jordan Valley on Wednesday afternoon.

The bomber also confessed that he was supposed to be picked up by operatives inside Israel and driven to the site of the planned attack.

 

[Darat]

I thought this was about Isreal's elections?

 

[zenith-nadir]

I thought this was about Isreal's elections?

It is. The elections were held yesterday and Olmet's Kadima party won. End of story.

Not much else to debate about since the proverbial cat's in the bag. Now that Kadima has won we will wait and see what kind of coalition can be formed. Unless one is psychic that is impossible to predict.

One of the most interesting parts about the Israeli election is the sermonizing and moral platitudes coming from the Palestinian leadership who's Fatah-chairman demands Olmert to "return to the roadmap" as Fatah terrorists paraded freely down main street Gaza taking credit for the murder of innocent people yesterday.

{edited to add}

March 29th, 2006

Arab League Secretary General Amr Moussa told reporters at the annual Arab summit in Khartoum, Sudan, that it was doubtful the elections would bring anything new.

"The Arab world must study all its options. Because it is absolutely out of the question to accept ... unilateral withdrawals according to Israeli whims. This just doesn't work, and it can only worsen the situation," Moussa said.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, also at the summit, said the results would have little effect on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict unless Olmert changes his policies. "We want negotiations and not to dictate unilateral solutions," he said.

Here's these leaders sermonizing about Israel in Sudan, home of the worst genocide of the 21st century so far. The hypocrisy is mindblowing.

But just when you'd thought that Arab leaders - including Abbas - sermonizing about Israel in Sudan is hypocritical enter the political leader of Hamas Khaled Mashaal:

But a sharp reaction came from the political leader of Hamas, the militant group that swept Palestinian legislative elections in January and formed the Palestinian government. The group has rejected international pressure to reverse its decision not to recognize Israel's right to exist.

"Consequently, the Zionist position, be it that of Kadima or others, is one that buries the peace process, negates its existence and does not give it a chance. That position is a declaration of war against the Palestinian people," he added.

Khaled Mashaal heads a designated terrorist organization recognized as such by the EU, US, Canada and Israel. The hypocrisy remains mindblowing.

 

[Hutch]

I thought this was about Isreal's elections?

Ah, Darat, it is never just about Isreal with ZN. Even in regards to a thread devoted to just that topic.

See how he dances
See how he loops from side to side
See how he prances
The way his hooves just seem to glide
He's just a one trick pony (that's all he is)
But he turns that trick with pride

--Paul Simon








well, that takes care of my monthly snarky comment for the month--thought I was going to miss out...

 

[geni]

It is. The elections were held yesterday and Olmet's Kadima party won. End of story.

Not much else to debate about since the proverbial cat's in the bag. Now that Kadima has won we will wait and see what kind of coalition can be formed. Unless one is psychic that is impossible to predict.

Lots to disscuss.

National Union - National Religious Party are down which is good but not by much which isn't

Hadash are up which may make withdrawals easyer but I suspect Olmert is going to want to avoid working with what appears to be isreals loony left.

 

[Darat]

It is. The elections were held yesterday and Olmet's Kadima party won. End of story.


...snip...

And the Palestinian ones were over quite a while ago and Hamas won. End of story?

Personally I would really like to see some responses by the Israelis we have on this forum about what they think this means for Israel - and by that I don't just mean the conflict with the Palestinians. I rather think Israel as country is done a disservice by us outsiders because all we seem to concentrate on is the conflict with Palestine. Israel is about a lot more then that.

 

[David Swidler]

And the Palestinian ones were over quite a while ago and Hamas won. End of story?

Personally I would really like to see some responses by the Israelis we have on this forum about what they think this means for Israel - and by that I don't just mean the conflict with the Palestinians. I rather think Israel as country is done a disservice by us outsiders because all we seem to concentrate on is the conflict with Palestine. Israel is about a lot more then that.

That's actually what makes this election interesting.

Every single election since 1949 (that's when they started, yes) has featured security concerns as the principal factor in the election campaigns. But Labor Party Chairman Amir Peretz, until recently the leader of the Histadrut, Israel's largest labor union, promised to bring socioeconomic issues to the center of the campaign, and managed to keep those issues in focus during the entire campaign.

In truth, he had no choice. Labor couldn't compete with Kadima or Likud on security grounds, since the vast majority of the big military names were not in Labor's camp. So Peretz kept drumming on the themes of a higher minimum wage, higher subsidies for the poor and reversing some of the cuts in the Likud economic package that had taken a huge bite out of the welfare state over the last few years.

It worked. Although arithmetically Labor lost two seats compared to its previous position, it gained new ground in the geographic and economic periphery, traditionally a Likud stronghold. And while the new Pensioners party
took seven seats, that party is Labor's natural constituency, and will likely not hold out as a separate entity. All this while Labor was also losing serious ground to Kadima, in terms of defection of big names and local leaders. So a loss of only two seats is quite an achievement, especially compared to Likud's collapse (now there's talk of a Likud-Israel Our Home merger. They're natural allies, but I wouldn't think either Netanyahu or Lieberman would jump at that).

In any case, Olmert devoted most of his victory speech to socioeconomic issues, surely a sign of things to come. Those issues will gain even more prominence in the weeks ahead as the coalition coalesces, since the principal candidates for it - Labor, Shas, United Torah Judaism - have no stated demands that differ from Kadima's own regarding security. All the coalition negotiations will focus on social policy and funding.

So things are changing, Darat. Let's hope it's not just a flash in the pan.

 

[The Fool]

How will the election affect Sharon? Is there any further need to keep pumping oxygen into him now that the election is passed and Olmert has a mandate (assuming he gets a coaliton over the line)?

 

[webfusion]

Based on facts not in evidence

TF, Arik Sharon is not on a respirator. He is breathing on his own, according to the reports. So, your comment is based upon an incorrect set of assumptions.

--------------------------------------------
What does the 17th Knesset formation mean for Israel?
For one thing, the coalition-agreements will be a snap. SHAS is in.
The Yeshiva system will flourish like never before. Immigration from the West (especially the USA) is going to be higher than ever before. Foreign Investments will increase, along with exports. Tourism is going to be solid.

By 2010, this is going to be nation stronger, more stable and wealthier than ever. No doubts about it.

 

[Cleon]

By 2010, this is going to be nation stronger, more stable and wealthier than ever. No doubts about it.

Yes, I remember Republicans saying a similar thing in 2000. Call me skeptical.

 

[webfusion]

Do you have anything to base your skepticism on, Cleon? Can you point to any indicator which might show that Israel will be unable to forge ahead in all areas of science, industry, invention, finance, and social improvements?

I don't object to 'naysaying' but let's see something to back it up. Israel is not similar in political, social or religious norms as the USA and cannot be compared to the same set of parameters as Americans.

 

[The Fool]

TF, Arik Sharon is not on a respirator. He is breathing on his own, according to the reports. So, your comment is based upon an incorrect set of assumptions.

thanks web, I thought he was ventilated...I guess if he is breathing on his own they can hardly snuff him with a pillow or anything like that.

Can I assume once the election results are confrmed he becomes ordinary citizen Sharon?

 

[Cleon]

Do you have anything to base your skepticism on, Cleon? Can you point to any indicator which might show that Israel will be unable to forge ahead in all areas of science, industry, invention, finance, and social improvements?

I don't object to 'naysaying' but let's see something to back it up. Israel is not similar in political, social or religious norms as the USA and cannot be compared to the same set of parameters as Americans.

Yeah, yeah, I know, all glories to the Israeli state.

But your predictions are empty and without substance. Unless you have some evidence for them. (Which I doubt, beyond "Kadima good, Shas good, kol od balevav...")

Every single time someone's favored political party gets elected--and this is true internationally--they herald the triumphant future of their country. And it just doesn't happen.