Israel to evict WB settlers!

[egslim]

Explain to me why you would use a German word for an event that has happened in Israel?

Not speaking for Puppycow, but I don't think there's a proper English translation for 'lebensraum'.

'To need lebensraum' refers both to the desire for more land, and the willingness to expel its existing inhabitants. Which is an accurate description of the situation with Israel, and, as a sidenote, has nothing to do with the holocaust.

And if you feel offended by that word, I laugh in your face. Because it's nothing compared to how the people whose homes were demolished feel.

 

[applecorped]

Not speaking for Puppycow, but I don't think there's a proper English translation for 'lebensraum'.

'To need lebensraum' refers both to the desire for more land, and the willingness to expel its existing inhabitants. Which is an accurate description of the situation with Israel, and, as a sidenote, has nothing to do with the holocaust.

And if you feel offended by that word, I laugh in your face. Because it's nothing compared to how the people whose homes were demolished feel.

"In Hitler's book Mein Kampf, he detailed his belief that the German people needed Lebensraum ("living space", i.e. land and raw materials), and that it should be found in the East. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."


Not Puppycow:


I laugh in your face at such a stupid comparison by use of that loaded word.

 

[trustbutverify]

Because while the tactics may differ the strategy and the motivation remains the same.

I find it extremely sad that Israel, of all people, should have so many parallels with Nazi Germany. It's kind of like when an abused child becomes an abuser in later life.

Drivel cubed.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Who on this thread are defenders of this Israeli action and not Jewish?
Anyone?

I haven't posted to the thread, but I fit the definition otherwise.

 

[Skepticemea]

"In Hitler's book Mein Kampf, he detailed his belief that the German people needed Lebensraum ("living space", i.e. land and raw materials), and that it should be found in the East. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."


Not Puppycow:


I laugh in your face at such a stupid comparison by use of that loaded word.

Whilst I disagree with Puppycow's use of such a loaded word, would you not define the Israeli governments ever-tightening use of employment sanctions against the Palestinian population of the West Bank as abhorrent?

 

[Giz]

Whilst I disagree with Puppycow's use of such a loaded word, would you not define the Israeli governments ever-tightening use of employment sanctions against the Palestinian population of the West Bank as abhorrent?

If it was done in the absence of terrorism, yes. However, I tend to consider that the onus is on the Palestinians to curb terrorism before criticizing the economic impact of Israeli anti-terrorism procedures.

 

[Skepticemea]

If it was done in the absence of terrorism, yes. However, I tend to consider that the onus is on the Palestinians to curb terrorism before criticizing the economic impact of Israeli anti-terrorism procedures.

So before Israeli discontinue their myriad breaches of international law and multiple UN resolutions the Palestinians should stop blowing themselves and Israelis up?

I almost agree but not quite, as killing civilians should be anathema to a government. Naive, huh?

 

[Giz]

I almost agree but not quite, as killing civilians should be anathema to a government. Naive, huh?

Are you suggesting that the Israelis are willfully killing civilians (rather than accidentally causing collateral damage due to the terrorists using civilians as cover)?

A British officer's view on operation Cast Lead (which accords with my general view of the IDF):

In October 2009, Kemp made a presentation to the United Nations Human Rights Council in response to the introduction of the Goldstone report that accuses Israel and Hamas of committing war crimes and possible crimes against humanity during the Gaza War. Kemp spoke to the UN HRC on behalf of UN Watch.[23] While Kemp acknowledges that "of course innocent civilians were killed. War is chaos and full of mistakes. There have been mistakes by the British, American and other forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq, many of which can be put down to human error. But mistakes are not war crimes.", Kemp states the following: "based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: during operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defense Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in the combat zones than any other army in the history of warfare".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kemp#Testimony_on_the_Gaza_War

 

[CapelDodger]

"In Hitler's book Mein Kampf, he detailed his belief that the German people needed Lebensraum ("living space", i.e. land and raw materials), and that it should be found in the East. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."

You are conflating the principle of lebensraum with the practice. As we know, Israel did not exterminate the original inhabitants but expelled them. The principle remains the same.

I laugh in your face at such a stupid comparison by use of that loaded word.

Presumably you regard Zionist use of the loaded word Holocaust as equally stupid?

 

[CapelDodger]

These are nomadic people, and nomadic people get shafted when they are in the way of more advanced civilisations. Not just in Israel.

Indeed. Bedouin, Native American, hunter-gatherer of the Kalahari, or Irish traveller, there's just no place for you in the modern world where all land is demarcated by law-makers.

Time was that nomads could retreat further into desert lands to descend like wolves on the fold when the law-makers power waned, but no more.

 

[Cleon]

Indeed. Bedouin, Native American, hunter-gatherer of the Kalahari, or Irish traveller, there's just no place for you in the modern world where all land is demarcated by law-makers.

That is kind of a shame....

Time was that nomads could retreat further into desert lands to descend like wolves on the fold when the law-makers power waned, but no more.

....but that is probably for the best.

 

[CapelDodger]

I find it extremely sad that Israel, of all people, should have so many parallels with Nazi Germany. It's kind of like when an abused child becomes an abuser in later life.

It's almost inevitable when you consider the consider that nationalist Zionism and Nazism emerged from the same social context, which is late 19thCE Austria. Race-based, secular, and Social-Darwinist. Nazism had its day and its disaster; Israel is a continuing disaster for all concerned. Austria has barely moved on, if at all (they blame the disaster on Germany and remain essentially unchanged).

Austria as a Jewish Homeland in 1948 is one of the great missed opportunities of history.

 

[CapelDodger]

That is kind of a shame....

....but that is probably for the best.

I agree. Less romantic, perhaps, but for the general good.

 

[applecorped]

Presumably you regard Zionist use of the loaded word Holocaust as equally stupid?

Which zionist in this thread did that?

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I for one think comparing Israel to National Socialist Germany is wrong.

Yes, but probably for the wrong reasons entirely.

 

[Virus]

The Palestinian terrorists are the real descendants of Nazis.

 

[trustbutverify]

It's almost inevitable when you consider the consider that nationalist Zionism and Nazism emerged from the same social context, which is late 19thCE Austria. Race-based, secular, and Social-Darwinist. Nazism had its day and its disaster; Israel is a continuing disaster for all concerned. Austria has barely moved on, if at all (they blame the disaster on Germany and remain essentially unchanged).

Austria as a Jewish Homeland in 1948 is one of the great missed opportunities of history.

 

[bit_pattern]

Drivel cubed.

Idiocy hypercubed.

 

[bit_pattern]

You're a real intellectual, aren't you?

 

[HoverBoarder]

Noooo, no those settlements, silly! The other illegal settlements! They need to be cleared so that the right kind of settlement can expand.



And I just love the way Israel uses language depending on how they want to portray a situation to the world; when it's illegal Israeli colonies they become the homely sounding "settlements" but when its Bedouin Arabs that they want to ethnically cleanse from an area they become "illegal camps" .

This is definitely pretty atrocious, but understandable when a Country's laws and institutions favor a chosen race and religion.

The Israelis should demand more from their Country than this.

Even though there are definitely nearby countries whose actions would be considered far worse than this, it does not excuse this action.

It does not mean that these Bedouins should be sandwiched in between a landfill and a gun barrel.