Israel to evict WB settlers!

[Skepticemea]

I know you're being flippant, but it's a reasonable question I'd like a genuine answer to.

There is a Palestinian police force, although allowed under Israel's sufference however they seem to be rather keen on executing supposed collaboraters. Whatever the label applied, the West Bank is policed by either outright military (IDF) or Palestinian paramilitary organisations.

 

[The Don]

Sorry to make you cry. I call 'em like I see 'em.

So was your use of "Lebensraum" an attempt to align Israeli actions with those of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s or not ?

Using that emotively charged term and then saying that you're just calling it like you see it does seem to indicate to me that you do wish to cast one in the light of the other.

 

[bit_pattern]

So was your use of "Lebensraum" an attempt to align Israeli actions with those of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s or not ?

Using that emotively charged term and then saying that you're just calling it like you see it does seem to indicate to me that you do wish to cast one in the light of the other.

Just because the tactics differ, the strategy remains the same.

 

[Puppycow]

So was your use of "Lebensraum" an attempt to align Israeli actions with those of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s or not ?

Using that emotively charged term and then saying that you're just calling it like you see it does seem to indicate to me that you do wish to cast one in the light of the other.

What I'm suggesting is this:

gradually evicting people from their land and setting up illegal settlements in order to gradually get control of all of (the good bits of) the West Bank is a bad thing - yes ?

Are you more offended by my choice of words or by one people stealing land from another at the point of a gun?

 

[NWO Sentryman]

All I said is that they need more "living space." You guys are reading into it something I didn't say.

You directly compared Israel's policies (nasty as they are) to what the Nazis did in the Eastern Front.

 

[Puppycow]

You directly compared Israel's policies (nasty as they are) to what the Nazis did in the Eastern Front.

No I didn't.

 

[lionking]

No I didn't.

By using that word, yes you did. And you know it.

 

[Puppycow]

By using that word, yes you did. And you know it.

Nope. Straw man. What you read into it is not what I said. And you know it.

 

[Oliver]

I wonder why the Israeli hardliners just don't tell it like it is:

"The West Bank belongs to us and we're not willing to have any serious peace peace-talks whatsoever unless it's ours - including Jerusalem, that is."

 

[bit_pattern]

Arguing semantics is easier than facing up to the reality of what Israel is doing in its occupied territories.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

No I didn't.

by using the word "lebensraum", you were effectively stating that Israeli policy was comparable to that of the Nazis on the Eastern Front.

 

[bit_pattern]

by using the word "lebensraum", you were effectively stating that Israeli policy was comparable to that of the Nazis on the Eastern Front.

If by that you mean the transfer of civilian populations so that and expansionist nationalism can spread its borders then I think its an apt comparison. If you want to talk about how the policy is being administered compared to the Germans then that's another story.

 

[Cleon]

The important thing is that people have found something to distract from the topic of the thread.

 

[Skepticemea]

Indeed. I'm not really that invested in yet another "Israel bad, no Palestinians bad" thread, but suffice to say, it is still illegal for Israel to colonise the West Bank.

 

[theprestige]

Indeed. I'm not really that invested in yet another "Israel bad, no Palestinians bad" thread, but suffice to say, it is still illegal for Israel to colonise the West Bank.

Oh for crying out loud! Not this again.

Illegal under what law, exactly?

Is it the "my opinions aren't binding on Israel but dammit they should be!" clause of the universally-accepted "Israel shouldn't do things I don't like without my permission" law?

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Indeed. I'm not really that invested in yet another "Israel bad, no Palestinians bad" thread, but suffice to say, it is still illegal for Israel to colonise the West Bank.

Then why are you doing it? It's funny that despite the Jews having been there much MUCH longer, if an Arab group is in an area for 5 or more years, it's arab land and Jews are taking it from them. Gee, wonder what the arabs do with Jews who are in now Arab occupied land? Do they move them? No, they kill them.

There is a land dispute in that area. Not occupation. It just helps someone feel better about being biased by calling something occupation when it's anything but that. Of course you guys don't refer to arabs being occupiers when they have no more valid right to the land than the Jews.

The double standards on this forum are shocking. As someone said, show us the laws you speak of.

 

[CapelDodger]

So was your use of "Lebensraum" an attempt to align Israeli actions with those of Germany in the 1930s and 1940s or not ?

Lebensraum had nothing to do with Jews, and everything to do with Slavs. There's nothing wrong with making the analogy just because Israelis are mostly Jews. The principle does remain the same - someone has to make roomfor the incomers. Slavs in one case, Arabs in the other. Germans in one case, Jews in the other.

I don't think in these racial terms myself, but the Germans did then and the Israelis do now. Not all Germans or Israelis, of course, but the main thing is what gets done, don't you think?

Using that emotively charged term and then saying that you're just calling it like you see it does seem to indicate to me that you do wish to cast one in the light of the other.

Indeed, and why not?

 

[CapelDodger]

I wonder why the Israeli hardliners just don't tell it like it is:

"The West Bank belongs to us and we're not willing to have any serious peace peace-talks whatsoever unless it's ours - including Jerusalem, that is."

"From Dan to Beersheba" has always been the aim, and the only Israeli leader who sincerely attempted a compromise was assassinated. (Gaza was never included). That included the Negev and the West Bank. The original demand, which some still hold out for, includes the Litani Valley (occupied for eighteen years but they just couldn't make it stick) and what is now Jordan. There was a heck of a fuss when the French got the Litani Valley and another when Transjordan was created.

When Ben Gurion signed up to partition he made it very clear to everybody that mattered that he didn't mean a word of it. He knew how close he was to getting a bullet in the back. So does Netenyahu now.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Regardless of the whole occupation/conflict over land etc.
These are nomadic people, and nomadic people get shafted when they are in the way of more advanced civilisations. Not just in Israel.

And if you want to get into legalities: what is the legal status of the dwellings of the Bediouns?
What Bedouin journalist will get to write a nice article for Ha'aretz?
What Bedouin spokesperson will get on TV?

Non. because nomadic people get shafted when they are in the way of settlements, roads, airfields etc.

This isn't a problem that is unique to Israel, occupied or not.
The Roma aren't exactly high on the love list here in Europe either.

 

[Skepticemea]

Regardless of the whole occupation/conflict over land etc.
These are nomadic people, and nomadic people get shafted when they are in the way of more advanced civilisations. Not just in Israel.

And if you want to get into legalities: what is the legal status of the dwellings of the Bediouns?
What Bedouin journalist will get to write a nice article for Ha'aretz?
What Bedouin spokesperson will get on TV?

Non. because nomadic people get shafted when they are in the way of settlements, roads, airfields etc.

This isn't a problem that is unique to Israel, occupied or not.
The Roma aren't exactly high on the love list here in Europe either.

Agree with this. Why can't peoples just stay in one place so a proper shafting can take place. The Palestinians are proof of just how much can be achieved if you displace a people that wants to return. These nomads just bugger off somewhere else, where's the fun in that?