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Israel is proud to present: The aggressor-victim

stokes234 said:
Which peaceniks? Which organisations or high profile spokespeople for any leftist group have shown sympathy for al-qaeda?

I ask this because my understanding was that leftists had been opposing radical islam for decades due to their atrotious human rights and civil liberties records, and that the accusation that leftists have been sympathising with al-qaeda was merely propaganda from the right wing media. Do you have any examples? Or were you more referring to your experience with a few individuals on this forum?
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Ward Churchill, The SWP, George Galloway, World Can't Wait etc.

Virus and Travis can fill in more.
 
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stokes234 said:
Which peaceniks? Which organisations or high profile spokespeople for any leftist group have shown sympathy for al-qaeda?
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Why don't you start with this board?

Type in "Jihad Jane", and you'll see a defender of the Taliban, and their right to use suicide bombings against the Coalition forces (and civilians, but don't mention that to her). And, she doesn't even think AQ exists, and thinks it's all a US invention.

Or type in "Biker Druid", another so-called leftist who is a staunch supporter of Iran's right to self-determination, even if it's tyrannical self-determination, and despite its horrible track record of human rights abuses, and its continued funding of Islamic terrorism.
 
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Pardalis said:
In the leftist mind, the priorities go as follows:

1- downfall of America
2- destruction of Israel

2498- freedom and democracy

So anything that can make 1 and 2 happen faster, they will gladly support.
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can you tell me roughly....what proportion of americans do you think are committed to the downfall of America?

the reason I ask is I think you are basically delusional...
 
Pardalis said:
Why don't you start with this board?

Type in "Jihad Jane", and you'll see a defender of the Taliban, and their right to use suicide bombings against the Coalition forces. And, she doesn't even think AQ exists, and thinks it's all a US invention.
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In your own warped dreams, Pardalis.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
Ward Churchill, The SWP, George Galloway, World Can't Wait etc.

Virus and Travis can fill in more.
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Which SWP? There are many. Ward Churchill appears to be an extremist, but his wiki page says that he claims the US provoked 9/11, rather than actively agreeing with al-qaeda. George Galloway is widely regarded as having lost the plot - see his appearance on the british tv program Celebrity Big Brother for an explanation. World Can't Wait don't appear to be a particularly big organisation, and their wiki says nothing about sympathising with al-qaeda, though it does mention opposition to torture. Posting the context and sources makes your views alot easier to follow, and I believe it is standard practice to expect the claimant to stump up the evidence, rather than the skeptic.

I accept that I am moving the goalposts slightly, but I disagree that you can fairly claim that "the left" sympathises with al-qaeda based on quotes from these small groups and individuals. As a parallel, imagine I were to claim that "the right" were in favour of killing gay people, based on the views of the Westboro Baptist Church, and I lumped everyone who agrees with any sort of privatisation, deregulation of industry etc in with the same views. Would that appear fair?
 
stokes234 said:
Which SWP? There are many. Ward Churchill appears to be an extremist, but his wiki page says that he claims the US provoked 9/11, rather than actively agreeing with al-qaeda. George Galloway is widely regarded as having lost the plot - see his appearance on the british tv program Celebrity Big Brother for an explanation. World Can't Wait don't appear to be a particularly big organisation, and their wiki says nothing about sympathising with al-qaeda, though it does mention opposition to torture. Posting the context and sources makes your views alot easier to follow, and I believe it is standard practice to expect the claimant to stump up the evidence, rather than the skeptic.

I accept that I am moving the goalposts slightly, but I disagree that you can fairly claim that "the left" sympathises with al-qaeda based on quotes from these small groups and individuals. As a parallel, imagine I were to claim that "the right" were in favour of killing gay people, based on the views of the Westboro Baptist Church, and I lumped everyone who agrees with any sort of privatisation, deregulation of industry etc in with the same views. Would that appear fair?
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The Blowback thesis (adhered to by some peaceniks and lolbertarians, practically says the US deserved 9/11.)

As for Ward Churchill, he actively said the victims of 9/11 deserved it in his "chickens coming home to roost" essay.

World Can't wait was one of several organisations behind ANSWER, who have opnely supported the Fedayeen, Baathists, Taliban, FARC etc.

By "Leftists" i meant thirdworldtraveler and globalresearch types.
 
The Blowback thesis came from the CIA, and does in no way say the US deserved it........ what an idiotic claim.
 
I doubt that anyone really thinks that the individuals killed deserved it. You could make an argument that it was a reasonably forseeable consequence of us foreign policy, but that doesn't ascribe blame to the victims.
 
nvidiot said:
I doubt that anyone really thinks that the individuals killed deserved it. You could make an argument that it was a reasonably forseeable consequence of us foreign policy, but that doesn't ascribe blame to the victims.
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You never heard of Ward Churchill have you?

And DC, Blowback is a flawed theory (Why has nobody from Latin America or even Serbia launched terrorist attacks on the US?).

Senor Johnson, the main Blowback advocate (GrenME discusses this in the "Fascist America in 10 easy steps" thread)

GreNME said:
And that article you claimed just called 9/11 "blowback" also implied that there was "no question" that the Pentagon was a legitimate target militarily (as if there were no civilians or "innocent bystanders" like the WTC), and that the WTC towers were arguably legitimate targets, along with bringing up PNAC and attempting to link it to Israel-- this guy doesn't really help make your point that the author isn't selling conspiracy theories, he's just using a different pitch.
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Well anyone reasonable anyways. ;)

And I wouldn't characterize it as being a "leftist" viewpoint. More an anti-american one.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
I meant that Peaceniks tend to sympathise with AQ or the Taliban (the term "Useful Idiots" comes to mind). Though not all pacifists are like that, you get the thirdworldtraveler and Ward Churchill demographic (nutty (dismissed) professor who claimed the US deserved 9/11)
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Presumably "peaceniks" don't support anyone who wants to wage war. IIRC many left wing and pacifist organisations have been very anti AQ and Taliban.
 
The Don said:
Presumably "peaceniks" don't support anyone who wants to wage war. IIRC many left wing and pacifist organisations have been very anti AQ and Taliban.
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So how would you characterize the crowds in London protesting Operation Cast Lead?

The ones chanting "Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea"? Who cheered wildly when George Galloway said "we are all Hamas"?

Were those right-wingers? Is Galloway a right-winger?
 
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