Israel: Democracy in action.

a_unique_person said:
Can you give me a clue, I like charades.
I get it now. You are trolling. You really don't really have a point. That's cool. At least you are honest about it.
Mycroft said:
The only explanation I can think of is you’re not really concerned about them, that it’s okay with you if their suffering is continued as long as it’s also inconvenient for Israel, no matter how much more inconvenient it is for the Palestinian-Arabs.
Nearly half of palestinians polled favour a two state solution. So this is how disingenuous a_u_p, Demon and the Fool are;


1) There are palestinian refugee camps on Palestinian land controlled by the Palestinian Authority. Why are there palestinian refugee camps on Palestinian land controlled by the Palestinian Authority? Polls show that nearly half of all palestinians favour a two state solution. So what are they refugees from? They are on palestinian land, they do not want to live in Israel, so why the hell are palestinians living in refugee camps on Palestinian land controlled by the Palestinian Authority?

2) Everyone knows about Arafat's Billions. Everyone knows Arafat stole international aid money from the mouths of starving palestinians. Instead of giving the money for schools, roads, medicine or food to help palestinians Arafat STOLE billions and lined his pockets and his PLO goons' pockets. His wife, Suha Arafat lives in Paris, she gets $100,000 a month from the Palestinian Authority and is the focus of multi-million dollar transfers probe by French prosecutors.
 
shuize said:

Just out of curiosity, AUP, do you own or rent?

I only ask because I remember reading past posts in which you've stated how badly you think the Aboriginees have been done and how much you support returning their land to them.

I'm sure you must feel the same way about opening your doors to the Palestinians as you do about returning any bit of what you own to the Aboriginals, right?
Any time you potato heads want to suggest Israel apply the Australian model for land rights to the Palestinians let me know. I'm sure the Palestinian people would be happy to hear it......

Ignorance is bliss, so I Imagine the Zionists on this board must be in a perpetual state of rapture over thier knowledge of Australian land rights legislation.
 
shuize said:

Just out of curiosity, AUP, do you own or rent?

I only ask because I remember reading past posts in which you've stated how badly you think the Aboriginees have been done and how much you support returning their land to them.

I'm sure you must feel the same way about opening your doors to the Palestinians as you do about returning any bit of what you own to the Aboriginals, right?

Do you want me to say it again, all countries are as responsible to offer asylum to these refugees. Even better, let Israel give them one of their own.

ZN's claim was that Arabs are to blame for these unfortunate people being stateless.
 
a_unique_person said:
ZN's claim was that Arabs are to blame for these unfortunate people being stateless.

UN resolution 181 in 1948 is rejected by the Arab league, the Arab armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon invade Israel and lost. Not the Arabs fault.

Egypt began sponsoring raids into Israel in 1956, closed the Strait of Tiran, deployed in the Sinai along the Israeli border and blockaded Israeli shipping. The result was the war in 1956. Not the Arabs fault.

Egyptian-sponsored guerrilla raids continued by Al Fatah in the 1960s. In 1967 Syria began shelling Israeli border villages, Gamal Abdul Nasser forced the withdrawal of UN forces from Gaza and the Sinai, he announced a blockade of Israeli shipping at the Strait of Tiran, Jordan and Iraq joined Syria in its military alliance with Egypt. The The Six Day War of 1967 began. Not the Arabs fault.

In September 1973 Palestinian terrorists detained an Austrian train carrying Soviet Jews en route to Israel. Egypt and Syria deployed their military. Egyptian forces crossed the Suez Canal and overran Israeli positions, the Syrians moved deep into the Golan Heights. The Yom Kippur War of 1973 began. Not the Arabs fault.

Had the Arabs not rejected UN resolution 181 in 1948 and then tried to destroy Israel for the next 50 years the Palestinians would have a 50-year-old state. Anyhow that is all irrelevant, as it is only me who erroneously "claims that Arabs are to blame for these unfortunate people being stateless".

By the way a_u_p I have asked you more than once and you have answered the question zero times so far, at least you are consistant, so I will ask you again just for fun just to see if you avoid the question yet again. What was the West Bank called before it was renamed in 1949?
 
a_unique_person said:
And people from the US wonder why there is so much disrepect towards them? If it is just a matter of who has the biggest guns, then the world is doomed. We may as well all just pack and go home, because the weapons only get more powerful, and the suffering those weapons will cause more awful.

Were would you go home to? You have land in your country because you took it from those that could not hold it. If that is wrong then you should undo the wrong and return that land to its previous owners.

I'm not saying you should talk about it. I'm saying, if you really believe what you say, you should DO it.

Of course, you will not.
 
CapelDodger said:
Israel is a democracy. That was a requirement for its formation in the modern world. Which is one of the contradictions that will see the failure of Israel : conceived in one era, born in another.
Another empty statement. What does this mean? Nothing of course, it's just a firework in order to create the impression that something important hides behind that.

"Democracy" is, of course, a broad-brush term (though less so than "free world"). The small percentage requirement for representation in parliament may seem very democratic, but it enshrines a party structure and in fact makes parliament very weak against the executive Deliberately so. Just what the powers of the executive are is difficult to discern, since there is no Israeli Constitution (something I'd have thought you'd mention).
" Free on line course to Political Theories" for those they haven't graduated high school."

The existence of Constitution though is not a prerequisite for a Democracy to function. Of course, as I have posted previously I consider a problem the fact that Israel doesn't have a constitution.
The very nature of Israel is war. It was carved out of a hostile Asian coast by Europeans, with military might.

As you know I agree but everytime I post that people remind me that I don't really have evidence for that and it sounds like a conspiracy theory. Maybe now that Unique and Davefoc read that from you will believe me!!

The Jews were sent to Middle East by the europeans to keep the Arabs busy, it was a good opportunity to get rid of them. First they annihilated them and what was left was sent to Middle East to patrol the "uncivilized Arabs".

Another contradiction : "We're democratic but necessarily militarised". And not just militarised for defence, since the borders of the original scheme have not yet been achieved (a majority on both banks of the Jordan, and northwards to the Litani valley. How Gaza fits in I'm not sure, but for some it's clearly "in").
This is yourinterpretation of course because personally I haven't see anything of sort to be part of any official dogma. We are militarized because the Arabs have been promising us the Third Temple since 1960.
The claim that Sharon - who ordered the invasion of Lebanon against the wishes of Prime Minister Begin, look it up, people - had nothing to do with it has the smack of infantility that is so much zenith-nadir's style. But I digress.

It's ok if you digress this is just another example of an irrelevancy that you posted it just to imply that you hold a superior knowledge that others don't.

Ask a Lebanese why they hate the Palestinians so much.

One result of Israeli democracy is the relative openness of government, which means government and cabinet papers are made public after 30 or 50 years.
Official documents in Israel have levels of classification as it happens everywhere on the planet.
This has seen the emergence of the "New History" phaenomenon in Israel. Another contradiction : what is revealed is incompatible with the necessary national myths (I'm sure we agree that nations need myths).
Of course such things occur only in Israel... BTW Have you heard of a certain Doctor Kelly?
Israel is a democracy
Ok, it seems that it's official now that we have passed the test.
and a majority of Israelis want peace, not expansion. Yet they don't get it. Most Israelis opposed the expansion of settlements after Oslo (subsidised by their taxes), but it went on. Something's amiss.
True but see what happens. When election time arrives, human bombs start exploding everywhere, workers that wait for the morning bus, children that go to school, people that enjoy a meal in a restaurant--Israeli citizens that have the right to vote and change the situation-- are murdered and those who survive such attacks constitute a mere proof that God doesn't exist this is why He left them live after such attacks-- all those people,along with those they witness such events you know, those that british media call bystanders and they discover teeth, nails and pieces of bones on their clothes and hair when they return home, the families and friends of the victims decide to vote for their security and not for the rights of the Palestinians that are not respected even by their leaders.
 
Rob Lister said:


Were would you go home to? You have land in your country because you took it from those that could not hold it. If that is wrong then you should undo the wrong and return that land to its previous owners.

I'm not saying you should talk about it. I'm saying, if you really believe what you say, you should DO it.

Of course, you will not.

I can´t speak for AUP, but I guess he will do it precisely the same moment that you pay the American Indians 500 years´ worth of overdue rent.
 
CapelDodger said:
The claim that Sharon - who ordered the invasion of Lebanon against the wishes of Prime Minister Begin, look it up, people - had nothing to do with it has the smack of infantility that is so much zenith-nadir's style. But I digress.
I am curious. Since the Lebanese civil war STARTED in 1975 and Sharon was not the Israeli defense minister until 1981 how did Sharon "have something to do" with the Lebanese civil war that started six years prior? Remember, I am infantile and require an explanation.
 
Chaos said:


I can´t speak for AUP, but I guess he will do it precisely the same moment that you pay the American Indians 500 years´ worth of overdue rent.

I owe them no rent. The land is not theirs. It is ours.

We TOOK it fair and square, IMO. <---Note the opinion.

In AUP's opinion, his land belongs to the originals, yet he will not return it. He talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.
 
Rob Lister said:


I owe them no rent. The land is not theirs. It is ours.

We TOOK it fair and square, IMO. <---Note the opinion.

In AUP's opinion, his land belongs to the originals, yet he will not return it. He talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Another demonstration of complete ignorance of Australian land rights legislation.
 
from Cleopatra:
True but see what happens.
What doesn't happen is the majority getting what they want. Which, in a democracy, indicates that there's something amiss.
The Jews were sent to Middle East by the europeans to keep the Arabs busy, it was a good opportunity to get rid of them. First they annihilated them and what was left was sent to Middle East to patrol the "uncivilized Arabs".
Pretty bizarre. The zionists were presumably agents of the European Cabal that was arranging this? It doesn't really work, does it? After all, the creation of Israel wasn't first suggested by ... whoever it was with this devilish plan. (The Freemasons, I'll be bound.) By the by, "annihilated" wouldn't leave a fragment to be shipped out.
Ask a Lebanese why they hate the Palestinians so much.
I imagine it would have something to do with the Palestinians being in Lebanon, rather than in the Palestine they were ejected from. That's just an assumption on my part, of course. Ask a Lebanese why they hate other types of Lebanese so much.
This is yourinterpretation of course because personally I haven't see anything of sort to be part of any official dogma.
Official dogma? What is the official dogma on the borders of Israel, as far as you know? This was certainly the official zionist dogma as laid out before the Peel Commission. Has it ever been changed?
 
CapelDodger said:
I imagine it would have something to do with the Palestinians being in Lebanon, rather than in the Palestine they were ejected from. That's just an assumption on my part, of course.
Hummmm, why would the Lebanese hate Palestinians...lemme think...Could it be the influx of Palestinian guerrillas who were expelled from Jordan in late 1970 and 1971? Nope. Could it be the severe clashes between Palestinian guerrillas and the Lebanese army? Nope. Could it be the civil war that erupted between Phalangists and Palestinian guerrillas/Muslim groups that reduced Beirut to rubble and killed over 40,000? Nope. Could it be the Palestinian guerrilla raids into Israel which brought the Israeli army into Lebanon? Nope.....My assumption is that the Lebanese hate Palestinians because they were born 150 kilometers south of Beirut and aren't Lebanese they're Palestinians.
 
Originally posted by The Fool
Any time you potato heads want to suggest Israel apply the Australian model for land rights to the Palestinians let me know. I'm sure the Palestinian people would be happy to hear it......

You mean slaughter them to the brink of extinction, spend a few decades stealing their babies to be raised by white folk to erase any coherent sense of cultural identity, and then grudgingly consider offering some token compensation to the handful of poverty-stricken survivors?

Egads! Try implementing that "solution" to the Palestinian-Arabs, and I’ll move over there to join them in taking up arms against you.
 
Rob Lister said:


I owe them no rent. The land is not theirs. It is ours.

We TOOK it fair and square, IMO. <---Note the opinion.

In AUP's opinion, his land belongs to the originals, yet he will not return it. He talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

If you wonder why there is a lot of anti-american sentiment around the world, this is a prime example. You are a coward, hiding behind a bully.
 
Mycroft said:


You mean slaughter them to the brink of extinction, spend a few decades stealing their babies to be raised by white folk to erase any coherent sense of cultural identity, and then grudgingly consider offering some token compensation to the handful of poverty-stricken survivors?

Egads! Try implementing that "solution" to the Palestinian-Arabs, and I’ll move over there to join them in taking up arms against you.

well, at least we get the grudgingly considered token compensation eh?......something you don't seem to be able to consider for Arabs...
By the way...have you managed to come up with what you consider to be the acceptable limit of Israels border expansion yet? Or is it still the whatever you can get away with model?

I also forgot to ask if you have got around to spanking ZN for calling the fence a wall?
 
The Fool said:


well, at least we get the grudgingly considered token compensation eh?......something you don't seem to be able to consider for Arabs...
By the way...have you managed to come up with what you consider to be the acceptable limit of Israels border expansion yet? Or is it still the whatever you can get away with model?

I also forgot to ask if you have got around to spanking ZN for calling the fence a wall?

God damn, we even gave them a vote in their own country.
 
a_unique_person said:


If you wonder why there is a lot of anti-american sentiment around the world, this is a prime example. You are a coward, hiding behind a bully.

I do not personally care about anti-american sentiment when it is held by the irrational and hypocritical.

Your home of record did pretty much the same as my home of record. So, if I am a coward, then so too are you, to an equal or greater degree as me.

The difference is that I am not irrational, nor am I hypocritical.

You could prove me wrong and be better on all accounts than I am. All you have to do is pack up and leave that land down under and head north to the lands of your ancesters. Don't hide behind the evil you feel others of your ilk do. Instead, set the example and leave. Otherwise you too are just hiding behind a bully.

But you won't. You talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

You make such poor arguments for the pro-P position that I'm beginning to think you are a pro-I's sockpuppet.
 
Originally posted by The Fool
well, at least we get the grudgingly considered token compensation eh?......something you don't seem to be able to consider for Arabs...

It doesn't do any good to follow the Australian plan out of order. See if you can push forward the first two stages of the plan, then work on the third.

Originally posted by The Fool
By the way...have you managed to come up with what you consider to be the acceptable limit of Israels border expansion yet? Or is it still the whatever you can get away with model?

What, you failed to see my answer the last time you asked? I’ll tell you what, I’ll repeat my answer if you can tell me why taking quotes 50 years or more out of date might not be the best way to discern modern political thought.

Nice deflection, by the way. If you feel you can’t prevail on the topic at hand, just muddy the waters and hope the end result is confusing enough that you can call it a draw.

Originally posted by The Fool
I also forgot to ask if you have got around to spanking ZN for calling the fence a wall?

No, I missed that one. I was going to correct him for saying a Palestinian-Arab is someone who was born 150 miles south of Beirut. The real definition has nothing to do with where someone was born.
 
Originally posted by a_unique_person
God damn, we even gave them a vote in their own country.

Yeah, that was very white of you.

Of course, you waited until their numbers were too small to make any difference.
 
Mycroft:
"Translation: I can’t figure out how to explain my lack of concern over Arabs keeping Palestinian-Arabs in refugee camps into the fourth generation, so I’ll cough up this red herring and hope it distracts everyone from this issue."

Translation...I`totally ignore the original question and the 900lbs gorilla sitting in the corner of the room and deflect attention away from the one question I don`t have the nerve or integrity to answer..."Eretz Israel".

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fool:
By the way...have you managed to come up with what you consider to be the acceptable limit of Israels border expansion yet? Or is it still the whatever you can get away with model?

Mycroft:
What, you failed to see my answer the last time you asked? I’ll tell you what, I’ll repeat my answer if you can tell me why taking quotes 50 years or more out of date might not be the best way to discern modern political thought.
Nice deflection, by the way...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I failed to see it too...`tis the question that dare not speak it`s name eh Myci? LOL.
 

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