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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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Stout said:
One of the left's cornerstone stances is insisting upon the west's non-interference in the affairs of other sovereign nations and cultures. If Egypt decides it wants to sever ties with Hamas, just how does the left try to justify committing acts that they demand others don't ?

Short answer ism, they don't they just ignore the whole issue, pat themselves on the back for a job well done and look to see themselves on the evening news.

it's also condescending, as if the Egyptian pro-Palestinian movement can't, or won't do what they, the Canadian activists, think needs to be done. There is an Egyptian pro Palestinian movement...right ?

If the left wants to protest about Egypt, then why haven't they initiated a BDS campaign like they did with Israel ? Or protest the massive amounts of foreign aid sent to Egypt, like they do to Israel ?

The environmental angle is a loosing proposition, I know that, like sheesh, thinking that activists would actually try to reduce their carbon footprint in anything more than a cosmetic way. Have you ever heard an eco-warrior stand up and say something like "for the health of the planet, I will never, ever travel for a holiday again"

No ?

Yes.

I have, just one, and I've been using this argument for 6 years. Sure there's all sorts of justifications for travelling, in this case, to tell the Egyptians what to do, but there's the whole experiencing other cultures thing which i hear the most often. Give that up? Take direct action ? Acknowledge that you're part of the problem ? Heck no !

Just protest and complain about what other people are doing.
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It's funny that, in your time as a lefty, you never came across the concept of solidarity.
 
Stout said:
Not really, save for Israel. They're rather reluctant to address human rights issues in other countries, especially in those inhabited by "the other". Unless, of course, there's some sort of "the west made it happen" angle to it. On the far left forum that I read daily, issues like that are swept under the carpet and ignored.

FWIW, I'm an ex lefty, I left the left because I got tired of playing oppression olympics and who is more left, who is more moral, who is more righteous. I see the attitude hasn't evolved.

Yes, I'm aware that people use alternative transportation. I certainly do but for my own selfish reasons. I hate driving and I actually like cycling and walking:). Except somebody stole my bicycle, so I'm in the market for a new one.

What I'm loathe to do is, go to protests against the corporations, or against oil and gas because I like having those things available. Sure, I could squawk and moan, that's easy, and lets face it, going to protests is kind of fun. I'd sure feel like a heel patronising those industries I'm protesting, especially if I was consuming their products "just for fun"



Yes, I agree and most people simply shrug it off by saying things like " that's for my government to worry about".

Most people don't go to protests though. it's only a small fraction and of that small fraction we have a tiny fraction of "extreme" protesters like the Freedom Marchers and the MM passengers. These are the guys i expect the most out of, to opt out of the spoils of capitalism, to eschew the luxuries that western society provides us. When they fail to do that, when they fail to live up to ideals they demand of others, is when I call shenanigans.
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i have read some programms of leftist parties in Canada, and it seems non of them are those leftists you described, what group do they belong to? i would like to read myself about them, they sound like very strange leftists.
what parties or groups should i take a look at?
 
DC said:
i have read some programms of leftist parties in Canada, and it seems non of them are those leftists you described, what group do they belong to? i would like to read myself about them, they sound like very strange leftists.
what parties or groups should i take a look at?
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DC what sort of evidence do you want ? Sure we have the odd leftist political party but I'm talking about the type of leftists who think that those parties are nowhere left enough.

It's a given that environmental activists use just as much oil and create just as much pollution as "joe average"

A couple of years ago, the government wanted to build a road. What happens, a group of anti-development activists stages a tree sit to protest not only the building of the road, but "car culture" in general. The were all over the news with it.

What happens when I surf to a site where these activists were active? Right there on the organiser's tribedotnet profile were pictures of his freakin' surfing trip to Peru. Now, I ask you, since this guy seems to think that flying to Peru to ride the waves is an appropriate use of oil, why should I listen to him when he wants to stop the building of a road that might save me a couple of minutes of running my car.

Most leftists are members of several different groups. anti-war one day, pro-environment the next and you're more than capable of doing you're own research on anarchists, communists, democratic socialists...if it's groups you want.

These activists, both the Gaza Freedom Marchers and the MM passengers all share the same hard left politics which are vastly different to the everyday. liberal ( in the American sense of the word ) that we're all used to.

Strange? I'll say.
 
Stout said:
DC what sort of evidence do you want ? Sure we have the odd leftist political party but I'm talking about the type of leftists who think that those parties are nowhere left enough.

It's a given that environmental activists use just as much oil and create just as much pollution as "joe average"

A couple of years ago, the government wanted to build a road. What happens, a group of anti-development activists stages a tree sit to protest not only the building of the road, but "car culture" in general. The were all over the news with it.

What happens when I surf to a site where these activists were active? Right there on the organiser's tribedotnet profile were pictures of his freakin' surfing trip to Peru. Now, I ask you, since this guy seems to think that flying to Peru to ride the waves is an appropriate use of oil, why should I listen to him when he wants to stop the building of a road that might save me a couple of minutes of running my car.

Most leftists are members of several different groups. anti-war one day, pro-environment the next and you're more than capable of doing you're own research on anarchists, communists, democratic socialists...if it's groups you want.

These activists, both the Gaza Freedom Marchers and the MM passengers all share the same hard left politics which are vastly different to the everyday. liberal ( in the American sense of the word ) that we're all used to.

Strange? I'll say.
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well actually a bit more than the anecdotal "evidence" you bring up here.
 
The Fool said:
expressing opinions on what motivates people to do stuff is showing solidarity? Thats one of your best.
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She diminishes what they do. The Taliban aren't oppressed people resisting violence done to them, they are oppressors themselves trying to interrupt life and order, and attacking innocent civilians. Jihad Jane is apologizing for their behavior, so therefore is sympathizing with them.

Do you think your ignorance of the issue helps you maintain clear goals? I can't think of any other reason you display it so proudly
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I understand perfectly who the Taliban are, and what they do, and what Jihad Jane is doing by apologizing for them. You don't seem to realize who you are aligning yourself with. I guess your username fits you well.

Jihad Jane is claiming she has "solidarity", as if it made her morally superior. But her solidarity with the Taliban shows it's all fake, she's actually morally bankrupt and solely ideologically motivated.
 
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Pardalis said:
She diminishes what they do. The Taliban aren't oppressed people resisting violence done to them, they are oppressors themselves trying to interrupt life and order, and attacking innocent civilians. Jihad Jane is apologizing for their behavior, so therefore is sympathizing with them.

I understand perfectly who the Taliban are, and what they do, and what Jihad Jane is doing by apologizing for them. You don't seem to realize who you are aligning yourself with. I guess your username fits you well.

Jihad Jane is claiming she has "solidarity", as if it made her morally superior. But her solidarity with the Taliban shows it's all fake, she's actually morally bankrupt and solely ideologically motivated.
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you certainly are showing solidarity with cluelessness.

please tell us all what you believe motivates the Taliban to do what they do....as soon as you do this I'm going to say you are apologising for thier behavior and therefore sympathizing with them.

face it....you are a Taliban cheerleader and you don't even realise it yet....

always remember...if people don't agree with your plans to deal with the enemy they are supporters of the enemy!! I think you got that one off Stalin.
 
Stout said:
DC what sort of evidence do you want ? Sure we have the odd leftist political party but I'm talking about the type of leftists who think that those parties are nowhere left enough.

It's a given that environmental activists use just as much oil and create just as much pollution as "joe average"

A couple of years ago, the government wanted to build a road. What happens, a group of anti-development activists stages a tree sit to protest not only the building of the road, but "car culture" in general. The were all over the news with it.

What happens when I surf to a site where these activists were active? Right there on the organiser's tribedotnet profile were pictures of his freakin' surfing trip to Peru. Now, I ask you, since this guy seems to think that flying to Peru to ride the waves is an appropriate use of oil, why should I listen to him when he wants to stop the building of a road that might save me a couple of minutes of running my car.

Most leftists are members of several different groups. anti-war one day, pro-environment the next and you're more than capable of doing you're own research on anarchists, communists, democratic socialists...if it's groups you want.

These activists, both the Gaza Freedom Marchers and the MM passengers all share the same hard left politics which are vastly different to the everyday. liberal ( in the American sense of the word ) that we're all used to.

Strange? I'll say.
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I'll say!! Most live in ga-ga land. A land of make believe that cannot exist.
Sometimes they are called rent-a-crowd, other times the loony left. If these nut cases had their way, unemployment would be more than 70% in the West. Not one tree would be cut down, mineral or oil, gas and most other exploration would grind to a standstill. Even housing estates would grind to a standstill because some natural bushland has to be cleared for housing estates.
Point this out to a loony lefties, and he/she will look at you with a blank look on their faces. They protest but have no idea what they're protesting about. :p:p
 
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amb said:
I'll say!! Most live in ga-ga land. A land of make believe that cannot exist.
Sometimes they are called rent-a-crowd, other times the loony left. If these nut cases had their way, unemployment would be more than 70% in the West. Not one tree would be cut down, mineral or oil, gas and most other exploration would grind to a standstill. Even housing estates would grind to a standstill because some natural bushland has to be cleared for housing estates.
Point this out to a loony lefties, and he/she will look at you with a blank look on their faces. They protest but have no idea what they're protesting about. :p:p
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Deliver your speech to some "loony lefties" and they would probably offer you a blanket and a hot drink rather than a blank look.
 
Rather, I would probably get pelted with rotten tomatoes and eggs. No one likes to be told the facts, especially the people who will stage a protest at the drop of a hat. Listen to reason? No way!
 
amb said:
Rather, I would probably get pelted with rotten tomatoes and eggs. No one likes to be told the facts, especially the people who will stage a protest at the drop of a hat. Listen to reason? No way!
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Try it some day.
 
I hope I'm not giving the impression here that I'm from the far right. They are even loonier.

I'm from the center wing, if that's what's it called.
 
amb said:
I hope I'm not giving the impression here that I'm from the far right. They are even loonier.

I'm from the center wing, if that's what's it called.
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A centrist, you mean.

Yes most people are, lean a little bit left on some issues, a little bit right on others and with a healthy cynicism towards extremists on both sides of the political system.

I don't pay too much attention to the far right anymore as they don't seem to active in Canada. As an atheist, I found it hard to relate to all the religious angles they kept throwing up and I only "research" them if the loony left is tossing out accusations.

As a for instance, last spring on international day to end racism, there were claims by the left about a supposed neo-nazi rally happening at a transit station in Vancouver. The activists showed up, all fired up from their recent anti-Olympic protests, the black bloc was even there with their masks on all prepared for battle and they even confronted a couple of guys with short hair, thinking they we're "the enemy"

Turns out, they were just a couple of guys trying to get on the train.

I took a quick look through stormfront, looking for announcements regarding the purported rally, only to find they had some other event scheduled at a secret, rural location for that day. It wasn't a neo-nazi thing, but some weird Viking sounding thing, they even posted photos of the event with the faces of the attendees obscured.

Oh, there was one neo-nazi that did show up, but he said he was there because he wanted to confront the activists and he'd never heard of the event until he read about the protest. my conclusion, it was a totally fictitious event, engineered by the loony left so they could get out and have a party.

The left may go on about anti-oppression, buy, wow, do they ever want to get out there and do some oppression themselves.

The guy who just one the Nobel Peace Prize is in jail in China for "incorrect" political views.
 
a_unique_person said:
Peaceful protestor loses eye in West Bank
http://www.haaretz.com/print-editio...erican-lost-eye-at-west-bank-protest-1.294566
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By the way, the probe to that has ended, and the police judged the injury to be accidental.

There is a video of this incident here:

As far as I can see, the gas canister ricocheted of a concrete barrier.

PS I zombie-threaded this out since I think it is useful to go back to stories once there is enough information to determine the truth with some degree of confidence. The linked video allows to do that.
 
In light of the recent wikileaks, do we all agree that the blockade was part of Israels economic warfare against gaza, and that Israel was lying about it?
 
No...it was their only option. The choices where impose a blockade or suffer genocide....or something like that.....possibly it was being butchered to the last baby but my memory is a little hazy....
 
Stout said:
Like you made up the idea that the term brown people was somehow offensive and stuck with your views even after I showed you that it's used in the PC community.
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In the USA, first they were "colored people"
That became offensive so they became "Negroes"
Then that became offensive so they were "Black"
Then that became offensive so they were "African-Americans"
Then that became offensive so now they are "people of color"...
...which is eactly the same thing as "colored people".

Go figure.
 
Skeptic said:
In the USA, first they were "colored people"
That became offensive so they became "Negroes"
Then that became offensive so they were "Black"
Then that became offensive so they were "African-Americans"
Then that became offensive so now they are "people of color"...
...which is eactly the same thing as "colored people".

Go figure.
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Soon they will be called non whites. :)
 
The Fool said:
No...it was their only option. The choices where impose a blockade or suffer genocide....or something like that.....possibly it was being butchered to the last baby but my memory is a little hazy....
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After all the media hysterics, it's died down, and the blockade is still in place. Israel can't afford to relax it for a moment.
 
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