Split Thread Islamic takeover

[arthwollipot]

"Assimilation" isn't a very well-defined term. "Citizenship," on the other hand, is defined in the laws and
constitutions of every country that maintains them. If you live within the boundaries set by a country's
laws and give your allegiance to its constitution, that's "assimilation" with a useful definition.

Culture be damned.

"Assimilation" means "When they live among us they must erase their own culture and language to conform completely to our standards".

 

[jt512]

We went the rounds with this in a thread years ago, so to try and summarise. In the UK for most civil disputes the two parties can agree to arbitration, it is up to the two parties if they want to use an arbitration tribunal or not, you can also pretty much elect to use anyone as an arbitrator. As an example in most contracts the two parties will agree that if there are disputes arising from the contract they will accept a KC being the arbitrator.

And obviously when an immigrant Muslim couple "agree" to arbitration in a Sharia court, the two consent equally. There is no way that in a Muslim couple the man could possibly coerce the woman to his will. And of course the Sharia court will treat the rights of the man and the woman as equal, cause that's exactly how it works in Muslim cultures.

You're right. I can't imagine anything going wrong with at all.

 

[GlennB]

And obviously when an immigrant Muslim couple "agree" to arbitration in a Sharia court, the two consent equally. There is no way that in a Muslim couple the man could possibly coerce the woman to his will. And of course the Sharia court will treat the rights of the man and the woman as equal, cause that's exactly how it works in Muslim cultures.

You're right. I can't imagine anything going wrong with at all.

Sharia courts have no legal standing in the UK

 

[LSSBB]

Sharia courts have no legal standing in the UK

Or in the U.S. Even in Dearborn.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

And obviously when an immigrant Muslim couple "agree" to arbitration in a Sharia court, the two consent equally. There is no way that in a Muslim couple the man could possibly coerce the woman to his will. And of course the Sharia court will treat the rights of the man and the woman as equal, cause that's exactly how it works in Muslim cultures.

You're right. I can't imagine anything going wrong with at all.

That also applies to othodox Jewish couples who have the same right and power dynamic. Should that also be removed ?

Apart from the already mentioned fact that the arbitration does NOT trump legal rights?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

And obviously when an immigrant Muslim couple "agree" to arbitration in a Sharia court, the two consent equally. There is no way that in a Muslim couple the man could possibly coerce the woman to his will. And of course the Sharia court will treat the rights of the man and the woman as equal, cause that's exactly how it works in Muslim cultures.

You're right. I can't imagine anything going wrong with at all.

because all secular marriages and divorces are coercion free?

It's almost as if migrants have to be better than citizens in every way to qualify for integration.

 

[Helen]

You are confused. Helen made the assertion that Citizenship did mean assimilation. And nothing backs that up.

I did? Wow. Sometimes i really surprise myself.

Why are your values of tolerance and diversity not universally shared?

For this discussion, it doesn't matter why. It suffices to note that they aren't.

Ask better questions.

Since I consider tolerance and diversity essential human values, I will just have to consider people, who do not share them, not human. They have simply not been assimilated.

Give better answers.

There are quite a number of people who do not share the values, or culture, a majority of Swedes consider Swedish, even though they, as well as many generations of their ancestors, are born here. What are they?

 

[Darat]

And obviously when an immigrant Muslim couple "agree" to arbitration in a Sharia court, the two consent equally. There is no way that in a Muslim couple the man could possibly coerce the woman to his will. And of course the Sharia court will treat the rights of the man and the woman as equal, cause that's exactly how it works in Muslim cultures.

You're right. I can't imagine anything going wrong with at all.

We have been making a lot of effort to ensure Muslim women know their rights, part of helping folks assimilate...

Plus of course there is probably an annoying fact for you: 90% of applicants to "Sharia courts" in the UK are women looking to have their (religious) marriage dissolved and most are granted.

But let's not let pesky facts get in the way of fear mongering...

 

[Darat]

Sharia courts have no legal standing in the UK

Yes and no, the term is often broadly used to help create division and fear by equating religious only bodies, like the ones I mention above which are mainly used by women to get a religious dissolution of their marriage and arbitration tribunals that are voluntarily used to settle such matters as a breach of contract. The arbitration tribunials' decisions like all legal arbitration decisions can be enforced by civil court orders.

 

[Darat]

That also applies to othodox Jewish couples who have the same right and power dynamic. Should that also be removed ?

Apart from the already mentioned fact that the arbitration does NOT trump legal rights?

It's actually worse for Jewish wives, an orthodox Jewish (religious) divorce can only happen when the husband provides the wife with a get, unlike the Sharia equivalent were the Sharia court can dissolve a marriage over the objections of the husband a Beth Din cannot dissolve a religious marriage. This means a woman can't remarry at all and some Jewish men will refuse to give her a get. For anyone wanting to see the real issues caused by this look up "agunah" women.

 

[Helen]

It's actually worse for Jewish wives, an orthodox Jewish (religious) divorce can only happen when the husband provides the wife with a get, unlike the Sharia equivalent were the Sharia court can dissolve a marriage over the objections of the husband a Beth Din cannot dissolve a religious marriage. This means a woman can't remarry at all and some Jewish men will refuse to give her a get. For anyone wanting to see the real issues caused by this look up "agunah" women.

There is an excellent film about a Jewish woman who is trying to get divorced.

Gett: The Trial of Viviane Amsalem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org