Split Thread Islamic takeover

[Abooga]

Yes, propagandists always claim that their propaganda is true.

A racist is a racist, even if they claim to be racist for ethical reasons.

Calling something "propaganda" or even it being used as actual propaganda by someone doesn´t mean it´s false automatically. If Russia used bots to denounce Trump´s corruption, would you start defending Trump?

 

[icerat]

Your point only makes sense if we´re not being taken over by Muslims or we have absolutely no reason to worry about they immigrating into our countries in large numbers.

And we're not. Ergo?

If it were pure propaganda without any base on reality. But there is. Several examples have been provided to illustrate this point. Freedom of expression is already being coerced in Europe, you can´t express negative opinions about Islam without putting yourself in danger. Ask Theo Van Gogh. Oh, you can´t, can you? Remember why?

And 22 years later the murderer is still in prison and we live in an Islamic theocracy ... oh .... wait ....

 

[Mojo]

Your point only makes sense if we´re not being taken over by Muslims or we have absolutely no reason to worry about they immigrating into our countries in large numbers.

Yours only makes sense if we are.

 

[Abooga]

While this can be true in some cases, it is also true that the louder and all-pervasive and oft-repeated the propaganda is, the more effective it will be, regardless of whether it is true or not.

But it does matter if it´s true or not. It matters a lot.

If it´s false it´s just pure propaganda. The best way to fight it is to show it´s false. Transparency and evidence would help more than counter-propaganda.

If it´s true, or it has some kernel of truth at base, you may want to address this truth in due time, in order to avoid propagandists latching on it.

 

[Abooga]

Yours only makes sense if we are.

Yes. Did you ask Theo? Did you get to him? No? Why?

 

[arthwollipot]

The best way to fight it is to show it´s false.

This is demonstrably untrue.

 

[Mojo]

I remember seeing a right-wing journalist saying (to paraphrase) that he's opposed to racism, and is therefore opposed to immigration because he doesn't want a lot of foreigners coming over here stirring up racism.

 

[icerat]

Yes. Did you ask Theo? Did you get to him? No? Why?

Did you ask any of the victims of Utoya if Norway was now run by islamaphobic white extremists?

 

[Mojo]

The best way to fight it is to show it´s false.

You mean rather than to claim it's true?

 

[Abooga]

And we're not. Ergo?


And 22 years later the murderer is still in prison and we live in an Islamic theocracy ... oh .... wait ....

We don´t live in an Islamic theocracy but neither has Islam changed since then. It still contains a strong minority of extremists ready to kill in the name of Islam. European cities don´t look the same as they used to. Even San Sebastian, the closest city to where I live needed to set up some strong obstacles in front of the beach walkway, so nobody can just drive in at high speed and kill a lot of pedestrians. Do you know what kind of religion has made us take these precautions? Have a guess.

So these things are real, these protections are now present in many European cities. It´s a hard reality. You can touch it. Just walk up to it and touch it. Everybody can see it. That´s what you´re in denial of. That´s what you call "just propaganda" when it´s a hard, tangible reality.

 

[icerat]

We don´t live in an Islamic theocracy but neither has Islam changed since then. It still contains a strong minority of extremists ready to kill in the name of Islam.

At least you now admit it's a minority

European cities don´t look the same as they used to.

No place ever looks "the same as they used to"

Even San Sebastian, the closest city to where I live needed to set up some strong obstacles in front of the beach walkway, so nobody can just drive in at high speed and kill a lot of pedestrians. Do you know what kind of religion has made us take these precautions? Have a guess.

No, they didn't "have to". There's been no such attacks in San Sebastian (beautiful place btw), and afaik just the one in Las Ramblas nearly a decade ago? There's in fact been way more *non-islamic* vehicle ramming incidents in Europe in the past decade than islamist.

So my "guess" - based on actually looking at the data - is that installing bollards is a cheap and effective way to protect pedestrians and it has nothing to do with Islamism at all.

The question is ... given far more non-islamist incidents than islamist ... why do you think islamism was the motivation, and if it in fact was ... why only a response to that and not to the non-islamist incidents?

So these things are real, these protections are now present in many European cities. It´s a hard reality. You can touch it. Just walk up to it and touch it. Everybody can see it. That´s what you´re in denial of. That´s what you call "just propaganda" when it´s a hard, tangible reality.

Again ... why don't you think about all the non-islamist incidents they protect against? This reveals *your* thinking, which likely results from where you have been sourcing your information and views.

Good that you are here now!

 

[Abooga]

At least you now admit it's a minority

No place ever looks "the same as they used to"


No, they didn't "have to". There's been no such attacks in San Sebastian (beautiful place btw), and afaik just the one in Las Ramblas nearly a decade ago? There's in fact been way more *non-islamic* vehicle ramming incidents in Europe in the past decade than islamist.

So my "guess" - based on actually looking at the data - is that installing bollards is a cheap and effective way to protect pedestrians and it has nothing to do with Islamism at all.

The question is ... given far more non-islamist incidents than islamist ... why do you think islamism was the motivation, and if it in fact was ... why only a response to that and not to the non-islamist incidents?

Again ... why don't you think about all the non-islamist incidents they protect against? This reveals *your* thinking, which likely results from where you have been sourcing your information and views.

Good that you are here now!

So we keep going with denial then...

Those bollards have indeed been erected due to islamist attacks, everybody knows it. Your denial only illustrates your general self-inflicted blindness.

 

[Mojo]

The question is ... given far more non-islamist incidents than islamist ... why do you think islamism was the motivation, and if it in fact was ... why only a response to that and not to the non-islamist incidents?

Two-tier policing, innit?

 

[icerat]

So we keep going with denial then...

Those bollards have indeed been erected due to islamist attacks, everybody knows it. Your denial only illustrates your general self-inflicted blindness.

So ... even though the data clearly shows a greater threat from non-islamist incidents than islamist incidents, action to protect pedestrians was only taken due to fear of islamists? Is that correct?

 

[Mojo]

So ... even though the data clearly shows a greater threat from non-islamist incidents than islamist incidents, action to protect pedestrians was only taken due to fear of islamists? Is that correct?

To an islamophobe, Islamist violence is of a different character. It isn't like nice home-grown violence.

 

[Abooga]

So ... even though the data clearly shows a greater threat from non-islamist incidents than islamist incidents, action to protect pedestrians was only taken due to fear of islamists? Is that correct?

What data?

 

[Abooga]

Spanish cities start to reinforce security in central pedestrian areas

In wake of Catalonia attacks, installation of barriers has already begun at tourist sites

english.elpais.com

Spanish cities start to reinforce security in central pedestrian areas​

In wake of Catalonia attacks, installation of barriers has already begun at tourist sites

 

[Abooga]

To an islamophobe, Islamist violence is of a different character. It isn't like nice home-grown violence.

I´m Basque and I have plenty of experience with home grown violence. My views towards islamic violence are influenced by this experience. Here we also had a similar dynamic. Instead of islam we had nationalism, an ideology that is also breeding ground for extremist violence. Most nationalists were against violence yet a small, loud, motivated minority caused hundreds of deaths and had the whole society threatened. People were afraid to voice their opinions freely. Sound familiar?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Really?

You know this is alt right propaganda.

Most of the attacks attributed to Islamists are simple criminal acts. Muslims are by far the most common victims.

Anti-Islam pogroms carried out by Christians still occur.

Ethnic cleansing of Muslim communities in the Central African Republic

We uncover truth and hold the powerful to account. Take action, donate and join the Amnesty movement to protect human rights.

www.amnesty.org.uk

https://www.uscirf.gov/sites/default/files/2021-10/2021%20Muslims%20in%20Africa%20Factsheet.pdf

There is a great deal of anti-Muslim violence in India (mostly by Hindus), also in Sri Lanka.

In Burma and Thailand too.

 

[Darat]

Was it paranoia for Salman Rushdie, Theo van Gogh or the staff at Charlie Hebdo?

Why this need to downplay the danger of this dangerous cult?

What you posted was paranoia. If you wish to discuss something else feel free to do so but the post I was replying to will remain paranoia.