Split Thread Islamic takeover

[Trausti]

The big difference is that Muslim bigots are in no place in Europe in a position to push their vile view on us trough politics. Whereas the far right, using the spectre of scary muslim immigrants is.

They've already infiltrated many lefty parties; which are easily identified by their condemnation of Israel and Jews. Can you name any place in the World, contemporary or past, where the arrival and later dominance by Islam was not detrimental to the indigenous people of the land? All of the north Africa, including Egypt, used to be Christian. Now the Christian Copts in Egypt are treated like second-class citizens. Are you just blissfully hoping that Europe could avoid the same fate? Lebanon, too, used to be a predominately Christian country; then the Muslims came. What is now Pakistan used to be part of pre-colonial India. But because the Muslims there couldn't brook being ruled over by Hindus or Sikhs, they forced the creation of a new, Muslim dominate, country. A country that maintains the death penalty for blasphemy. And the Sikhs didn't get their own country. When they had to choose Muslim Pakistan or Hindu India, it wasn't a hard choice at all. Yet, somehow, on this supposedly freethinker forum, the apologetics for Islam abound.

 

[Trausti]

The Western lefty's proclivity to ally with Islamist foreigners to win their domestic squabbles may go as well as when Diarmait MacMurrough bade Strongbow to Ireland to help reclaim the Kingdom of Leinster.

Literally anything can be ‘Islamophobic’ in Green la-la land

The Greens’ Muslim wing has decreed it racist to question the Koran, to say Islam is homophobic and to go to the pub.

 

[Ziggurat]

The big difference is that Muslim bigots are in no place in Europe in a position to push their vile view on us trough politics.

If current demographic trends continue, that is only a matter of time.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

What American Taliban? Are you referring to the guy who used to promote swimsuit competitions and party with models?



You know, in a lot of those place the people are fighting to be free of Islam. Are all the protesters killed in Iran "islamophobes"? If you're against death for apostacy and hanging gay men you're an islamophobe. Okay. Really, anyone who actually cares about Western liberal values should be an "islamophobe."

But were they fighting to be free of Islam? Or just of rulers abusing Islam to push their limited version?
Hint: refugees from such regimes generally do not deconvert.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

If current demographic trends continue, that is only a matter of time.

Assuming the trend *does* continue, assuming all their childern agree with them and assuming Islam is some form of hive mind rather than fractions that dislike each other then maybe in 50 to 100 year this could happen.
Again 150 years ago these claims were levied against Catholics with the exact same arguments in at least the UK and the Netherlands.

In the meantime the fascist populists pushing this fear mongering take large portions of EU votes. I'll focus on the actual danger to my freedoms.

 

[Pixel42]

If current demographic trends continue, that is only a matter of time.

And if this trend continues, it's only a matter of time before religion is a thing of the past.

The proportion of people identifying as religious declined from 68 % in 2005 to 56 % in 2024, reflecting a steady global trend toward secularization. Meanwhile, the share of those identifying as not religious increased from 21 % to 28 %, and convinced atheists rose from 6 % to 10 %. These changes suggest a gradual but consistent move away from traditional religious identification over the two decades.

 

[Helen]

This is nonsense.
(1) Second generation immigrant fertlity rates are close to native. In Sweden they're lower than native!
(2) Many immigrants stop practicing their "mother" religion

These are the current trends here. Fertility rates go down, when women are free to choose.

 

[arthwollipot]

If current demographic trends continue, that is only a matter of time.

Why should we assume that current demographic trends will continue indefinitely? None ever has.

 

[jt512]

And if this trend continues, it's only a matter of time before religion is a thing of the past.

The proportion of people identifying as religious declined from 68 % in 2005 to 56 % in 2024, reflecting a steady global trend toward secularization. Meanwhile, the share of those identifying as not religious increased from 21 % to 28 %, and convinced atheists rose from 6 % to 10 %. These changes suggest a gradual but consistent move away from traditional religious identification over the two decades.

That's the global trend. What about the trend among Muslims? The webpage doesn't provide the answer directly. But it does provide trends by country for 20 countries. The only Muslim-majority country in the table is Pakistan, where the percentage of people identifying as "religious" increased from 78% in 2005 to 94% in 2024.

 

[Darat]

This is not a "what about" but an example of what I would consider a religious group trying to takeover, you don't need to watch it all, the relevant parts are in first 6 minutes which cover how a religious billionaire is trying to make a town bend to his religious views. Where are Islamists in the UK doing such a thing?

 

[jimbob]

This is not a "what about" but an example of what I would consider a religious group trying to takeover, you don't need to watch it all, the relevant parts are in first 6 minutes which cover how a religious billionaire is trying to make a town bend to his religious views. Where are Islamists in the UK doing such a thing?

Link?

 

[Darat]

Give me a second, it didn't paste correctly!

 

[jt512]

This is not a "what about" but an example of what I would consider a religious group trying to takeover, you don't need to watch it all, the relevant parts are in first 6 minutes which cover how a religious billionaire is trying to make a town bend to his religious views. Where are Islamists in the UK doing such a thing?

An Islamist is, by definition, someone who is trying to force your society to bend to his religious views.

 

[Darat]

An Islamist is, by definition, someone who is trying to force your society to bend to his religious views.

Yes that is why I used that word, please provide similar examples in the UK.

 

[jimbob]

Yes that is why I used that word, please provide similar examples in the UK.

And of course there will be some nutters with no chance

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

That's the global trend. What about the trend among Muslims? The webpage doesn't provide the answer directly. But it does provide trends by country for 20 countries. The only Muslim-majority country in the table is Pakistan, where the percentage of people identifying as "religious" increased from 78% in 2005 to 94% in 2024.

So, in a country nothing like the EU, where the government is actively trying to push the religion as part of their policy this happens. And thus??

 

[Darat]

And of course there will be some nutters with no chance

That why I posted that video example, that is a group actually demonstrating how a religion does takeover in a democracy. In the UK Only 6% of the population identify as Muslim, but that is not evenly distributed, for instance there is a town that for the life of me I can't recall the name of that is around 90% Muslim, there are a few constituencies that are in the 40% range of Muslims so it would be entirely possible for Islamists to use democracy to make changes in the UK.

 

[Ziggurat]

Why should we assume that current demographic trends will continue indefinitely?

They might not.

But what would change them? What can change them?

 

[Darat]

They might not.

But what would change them? What can change them?

People getting richer and better educated. That seems to a be a demographic change that has happened time and time again over the last few centuries in the UK.

 

[jt512]

Yes that is why I used that word, please provide similar examples in the UK.

Whatever your religious billionaire is doing, it is not relevant to what the Muslim Brotherhood is doing. They have their own M.O. According to the U.K. government's own 2015 investigation, the Muslim Brotherhood had "significant influence" over student organizations, some mosques, charities, and national Muslim organizations in talks with the government.