Split Thread Islamic takeover

[P.J. Denyer]

Please point me to them and I'll give them a read.

Look on the bright side, there's worse places some people have their heads buried.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

And the ones who came before them are part of our lives here, and don't seem eager to destroy our society to create a theocracy.

And ironically enough, a whole lot of people who are terrified of muslims and sharia will wholeheartedly support the American Taliban. I guess they just don't like competition.

I also keep asking islamophobes what they think of the Arab spring, the protests in Iran, and all the other cases of muslims fighting for freedom. The war in Syria, too, started in part (among other reasons) because people protested for a more secular, democratic regime. I never get an answer, strangely enough, and I have a feeling I won't this time either, just like the last times I asked for sources and answers in this thread. Strange, that.

 

[Abooga]

So how many muslims are ready to kill apostates? That's the heart of the matter.

We've had loads of muslim immigrants here since the Balkan wars. None of them have killed any apostates. Many of them are now secular. Their kids and grandkids are about as muslim as their peers are christian. (Another dangerous cult, by the way.)

Apostasy and Freedom of Conscience | Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain - CEMB https://share.google/itVgSNNahmFjXVcH6

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Apostasy and Freedom of Conscience | Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain - CEMB https://share.google/itVgSNNahmFjXVcH6


View attachment 77256

Not sure why I bother engaging, but...
I got a few paragraphs in. If I kept reading, would it have specified how many Muslims actually want the death sentence for apostasy, which is, you know, what we're talking about here? Especially Muslims in Western countries?

While we're at it, could you address all the questions you've skipped over so far in this thread, or are you just going to keep dropping new unfounded claims every time you get a difficult question, like a CTer?

Also liked the claim that 'all major religions' will put you to death if you leave them. Would love a source for that, too.

 

[Helen]

And if we're talking about apostasy, it's about lapsed muslims.

Which is another thing; any fundamentalist islamistic terror has mostly targeted other muslims.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Not sure why I bother engaging, but...
I got a few paragraphs in. If I kept reading, would it have specified how many Muslims actually want the death sentence for apostasy, which is, you know, what we're talking about here? Especially Muslims in Western countries?

While we're at it, could you address all the questions you've skipped over so far in this thread, or are you just going to keep dropping new unfounded claims every time you get a difficult question, like a CTer?

Also liked the claim that 'all major religions' will put you to death if you leave them. Would love a source for that, too.

Dude, the man has a cartoon FFS. That's definative, everyone knows you can't argue with a internet cartoon!

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

So far I only read some comments that actually helped prove my point. If it´s so easy to show I´m wrong, by all means, have a go at it. Just saying it´s neo-fascist doesn´t cut it, it´s just a smear and makes you look bad.

You are spouting nonsense and obvious lies. If you truly believe this ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ you're an even worse person than I thought you could possibly be.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

What do you mean by "mainstream" media? I barely read what's usually meant by it (Guardian occasionally), pretty much never watch it. My knowledge of the issue is mostly from people's claims and links on social media (like yours) and then going and doing actually research, looking at official statistics, etc etc

For example, your link to the Danish The Local earlier. I actually found and read the article. The gist of it was ... refugees cost the state money. More than immigrants coming for other reasons

Well duh. Of course refugees cost money. They're also a minority of immigrants.

It's also a 5 year old article reporting on data from 8 years ago! It also said the costs had been falling since 2014, and a quick bit of reserch shows *this has continued to happen* (though they're late with the latest updates)

So why are you reposting such old data and not mentioning the improvement?

And the main reason why refugees cost the state is because the state usually stops refugees from taking employment and supporting themselves.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

In Spain it was a CT for some time but then they admitted that there are actual instructions dictated by the government (talk about free media...) in order to hide the nationality of criminals when writing news items. For example:

https://gaceta.es/espana/rtve-confirma-que-en-2003-pp-y-psoe-pactaron-ocultar-la-nacionalidad-de-los-delincuentes-en-los-medios-de-comunicacion-20240627-1614/

Reading the news is like having to decipher a code. If it says "a Spaniard killed someone etc..." you know it was a Spaniard. When it says "a person killled someone etc." you know it was a foreigner. When it comes to gypsies they also use certain words "reyerta" etc. to describe the incidents, they can´t say it was gypsies (quite overrepresented in crime in Spain) but you can read between the lines.
All this just causes distrust in the media and institutions.

Regarding the whitewashing of Islam, you must have been living under a rock if you haven´t come accross this kind of thing bias in leftist media. I will try to find some examples if I have the time.

You're pushing a far right intenet site to verify your far right lies. Not compelling at all, frankly.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Would you say the same thing about far right hateful bigots?
"Nothing to worry about, just like all human groups, right wingers also produce those"...

Should we not worry about the rise of the far right then? Good to know, it had me worried for a bit...

Where did I say I do not worry about Muslim bigots? I said I did not assume all Muslims are as hateful
In the same way not all westerners are right wing bigots.

The big difference is that Muslim bigots are in no place in Europe in a position to push their vile view on us trough politics. Whereas the far right, using the spectre of scary muslim immigrants is.

It's not Muslims might in the next years rip my BIL's family apart as he's just an EU citizen living in the UK, it's Reform that platforms on that and might win.
It's not Muslims that cause the current food and energy crisis in the EU, that honor goes to the alt right icons Trump and Putin.
The various attacks on women's and LGBTQI rights across the EU does not come from Muslims, but from the alt right, fueled by targeted campaigns across social media. Some Muslim extremists might agree with the attacks, but they have no political power to enact it.
One of my colleagues in school was put on the 'dangerous left wing teachers' list by her right wing brother, the list being enacted by one of our alt-right parties. Not by Muslims.

I acknowledge that Muslim extremists exist, but their influence and threat is being severely exaggerated by parties that seek to destroy democracy in the EU for reasons of their own. And those parties have a realistic chance of removing my freedoms all to 'protect me', not those few extremists in a small community.

 

[jimbob]

Where did I say I do not worry about Muslim bigots? I said I did not assume all Muslims are as hateful
In the same way not all westerners are right wing bigots.

The big difference is that Muslim bigots are in no place in Europe in a position to push their vile view on us trough politics. Whereas the far right, using the spectre of scary muslim immigrants is.

It's not Muslims might in the next years rip my BIL's family apart as he's just an EU citizen living in the UK, it's Reform that platforms on that and might win.
It's not Muslims that cause the current food and energy crisis in the EU, that honor goes to the alt right icons Trump and Putin.
The various attacks on women's and LGBTQI rights across the EU does not come from Muslims, but from the alt right, fueled by targeted campaigns across social media. Some Muslim extremists might agree with the attacks, but they have no political power to enact it.
One of my colleagues in school was put on the 'dangerous left wing teachers' list by her right wing brother, the list being enacted by one of our alt-right parties. Not by Muslims.

I acknowledge that Muslim extremists exist, but their influence and threat is being severely exaggerated by parties that seek to destroy democracy in the EU for reasons of their own. And those parties have a realistic chance of removing my freedoms all to 'protect me', not those few extremists in a small community.

Well said.

Obviously in my case it's not my Brother in Law's family. It's my friends. People who have come here, as highly qualified engineers then paid more taxes for their salary until they then paid for the citizenship.

Without them, our site wouldn't be viable and about 800 jobs would go
And when you get to "Restore" even more of us. My mother was born in New Zealand so apparently I'm not sufficiently British for them.

 

[jt512]

Exposure to a new culture may be sufficient to moderate such beliefs, if not in the immigrants themselves then in their descendants.

The flip side of "may" is "may not."

So there must surely be better and fairer options than fearing and rejecting immigrants based solely on which particular religion they (currently) belong to.

That follows only if exposure to a new culture IS sufficient to moderate dangerous beliefs. What if exposure is NOT sufficient? What if the particular immigrant culture includes a radical segment (i.e., the Muslim Brotherhood) actively working not only to discourage integration into the new culture but to undermine the culture?

 

[jt512]

Please point me to them and I'll give them a read.

Operation Allah: Wie der politische Islam unsere Demokratie unterwandern will by the ex-radical Muslim Ahmad Mansour.
Translation: "Operation Allah: How political Islam Seeks to Undermine our Democracy"

Book description (translated from German):

“The worst thing for radical Islam would be a European-style Islam rooted in democratic values. That’s exactly why we need it.” Bestselling author and expert on radicalization and extremism Ahmad Mansour presents his plan for an effective fight against Islamism in Germany.​

​

For Ahmad Mansour, author of the bestseller Generation Allah, Islam in Germany is a consequence of a diverse society that should neither be celebrated nor demonized. But we must take a closer look: There are Islamists who, for example, infiltrate political and academic institutions while pretending to advocate for integration. Yet their goal is to transform our society. They are false friends. Islamism expert Ahmad Mansour highlights the failures of policymakers and calls on them to finally take action and stand firmly for the values of our society—with concrete measures ranging from housing construction to school policy. “Operation Allah” is a passionate and courageous plea for a secular future.​

​

His “commitment to integration in a free, democratic, and secure society” was honored in 2022 with the Federal Cross of Merit.​

 

[jt512]

Yup, I'm a fan of policies based in reality and that work.

Yeah, sure. Communism works just great.

 

[jimbob]

Yeah, sure. Communism works just great.

What has that statement got to do with anything?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I actually really appreciated this thread. It's good from time to time to have a reminder that those who push these views don't have a leg to stand on and will just jump from talking point to talking point (and eventually leave the thread) when pressed to back up their views.

Oh, and pro-tip: calling successful and popular policies 'communism' will just give the word a positive connotation with people, just saying. In fact we're already setting this happen in America with 'socialism', another word with a meaning that's been completely butchered by fear-mongers.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

What has that statement got to do with anything?

No clue, all I know is my sales of clutching straws has skyrocketed since the beginning of this thread .

 

[Trausti]

And ironically enough, a whole lot of people who are terrified of muslims and sharia will wholeheartedly support the American Taliban. I guess they just don't like competition.

What American Taliban? Are you referring to the guy who used to promote swimsuit competitions and party with models?

I also keep asking islamophobes what they think of the Arab spring, the protests in Iran, and all the other cases of muslims fighting for freedom.

You know, in a lot of those place the people are fighting to be free of Islam. Are all the protesters killed in Iran "islamophobes"? If you're against death for apostacy and hanging gay men you're an islamophobe. Okay. Really, anyone who actually cares about Western liberal values should be an "islamophobe."

 

[Trausti]

Also liked the claim that 'all major religions' will put you to death if you leave them. Would love a source for that, too.

I think only Islam does that. Which makes it so strange why people here defend it.

 

[Trausti]

And if we're talking about apostasy, it's about lapsed muslims.

Which is another thing; any fundamentalist islamistic terror has mostly targeted other muslims.

The Yazidis have entered the chat.