Split Thread Islamic takeover

[Abooga]

Split from: https://internationalskeptics.com/forums/threads/the-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-part-9.369574/

Posted By: Darat

The rise of the far right in Europe is very easy to explain, we´re being invaded, the great replacement is not wholly a CT, a huge percentage of muslims are Islamist, and their ideology demands submission of the west. Millions of them want to do a great replacement. If the current trend continues, in a few years there will be more muslim Europeans than not. ¿what´s conpiracionist about all of this? It´s a reality that particularly working class people who share living spaces with immigrants can attest. Mainstream media keeps trying to hide it under the rug, but people are not that stupid. So if the only political parties that have a clear, strong position about this issue are far right parties they are guaranteed to win sooner or later. A tragedy for Ukraine, I wish their invasion were over by the time the Russian backed far right won but it´s looking dire...

 

[The Great Zaganza]

"a few years" ???
why not give us a number ?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The reason, IMO, of the rise of the Far Right is that all Populist Parties everywhere except South America are Right-Wing.
People like the populist face a Party puts on, they care only secondarily about the actual politics. Point being that the Party pretends to be looking out for them, not only special interest or re-election.
When given a choice, voters do support populist left-wing Parties and go on protests against far-right Parties.

 

[Abooga]

"a few years" ???
why not give us a number ?

Well it depends on which country, here in the Basque Country, if the trend continues at the same pace it would be around 2050. They would no doubt start imposing their worldview way earlier than that, of course, if we go by what they do elsewhere. Islam is like the Borg, not a nice neighbor to have, especially when it reaches some critical mass.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Well it depends on which country, here in the Basque Country, if the trend continues at the same pace it would be around 2050. They would no doubt start imposing their worldview way earlier than that, of course, if we go by what they do elsewhere. Islam is like the Borg, not a nice neighbor to have, especially when it reaches some critical mass.

Start a thread in the conspiracy section.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

so even assuming the "slippery slope", completely ignoring Integration and just assuming that Muslims are all of one mind when it comes to taking over a Western country, we are still at least a quarter century from the point, where a group of diverse people with a Muslim background might constitute a majority in a regional State of a much larger Country.

Forgive me, but "a few years" is something very different.

Of course, as we know, it takes much, much longer for any new group to gain political influence, and even longer to amass wealth on par with the people living there for generations. In many countries with diverse ethnical populations, differences in power and wealth persist for centuries despite demographic changes.

Maybe you can name a single case where immigration of Muslims into a non-Muslim country has caused it to turn Islamist?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Start a thread in the conspiracy section.

and while you are at it, could you please change your avatar to something that doesn't look like a dildo being pushed up a butt?

 

[Abooga]

Start a thread in the conspiracy section.

As I said, there´s nothing conspiracionist about the demands of Islamism, but I agree this is outside of the scope of this thread. I just wanted to point out that the explanation of the rise of the far right (in Europe) is nothing mysterious, as some people seem to find...

 

[Abooga]

so even assuming the "slippery slope", completely ignoring Integration and just assuming that Muslims are all of one mind when it comes to taking over a Western country, we are still at least a quarter century from the point, where a group of diverse people with a Muslim background might constitute a majority in a regional State of a much larger Country.

Forgive me, but "a few years" is something very different.

Of course, as we know, it takes much, much longer for any new group to gain political influence, and even longer to amass wealth on par with the people living there for generations. In many countries with diverse ethnical populations, differences in power and wealth persist for centuries despite demographic changes.

Maybe you can name a single case where immigration of Muslims into a non-Muslim country has caused it to turn Islamist?

You don´t need all muslims to be of one mind, just enough of them and coordinated and influential enough. Probably not all the Borg were soldiers, many of them were just drones happily toiling away maintaining Borg cubes clean, all peaceful and kind.

Regarding your question, Islamism is a new ideology (a mixture of Islam and fascism), but if you mean Islam, there´s a whole body of work that studies the spread of it. Considering it´s a dangerous cult that intends to submit the world (Islam means submission), that kills apostates with no respect to the individual´s freedom of belief etc... being wary of if is totally warranted.

 

[Abooga]

and while you are at it, could you please change your avatar to something that doesn't look like a dildo being pushed up a butt?

That´s just your degenerate mind...

 

[steenkh]

The rise of the far right in Europe is very easy to explain, we´re being invaded, the great replacement is not wholly a CT, a huge percentage of muslims are Islamist, and their ideology demands submission of the west. Millions of them want to do a great replacement.

Do you have credible sources for the highlighted claims?

 

[icerat]

The rise of the far right in Europe is very easy to explain, we´re being invaded, the great replacement is not wholly a CT,

false. There is no "Invasion" or "great replacemen"

a huge percentage of muslims are Islamist, and their ideology demands submission of the west.

false. Only a minority of muslims are "islamist", and the majority of immigrants to Europe aren't Muslim in the first place

Millions of them want to do a great replacement.

nonsense

If the current trend continues, in a few years there will be more muslim Europeans than not.

false. even ignoring the earlier falsehoods, this one is usually based on birth rates and wholly chooses to ignore what happens to birthrates when people move from poor regions to wealthy regions.

¿what´s conpiracionist about all of this?

It's false and being used to push racist and divisive agendas

It´s a reality that particularly working class people who share living spaces with immigrants can attest. Mainstream media keeps trying to hide it under the rug, but people are not that stupid. So if the only political parties that have a clear, strong position about this issue are far right parties they are guaranteed to win sooner or later. A tragedy for Ukraine, I wish their invasion were over by the time the Russian backed far right won but it´s looking dire...

The "great replacement" ideology is pushed by Russian outlets, as indeed are waves of migrants. It's a weapon of war.

 

[Abooga]

I agree that Russian propaganda pushes an extreme, stupid version of this "great replacement" idea in order to aid their interests. But lying is much easier when you can base it in some truth.

It´s hard to know the percentage of Muslims that support Islamism. It´s an ever changing continuum, some are fully sold, some against it, some in the middle, then get radicalised, then back... it´s quite impossible to measure properly. There´s also not that much of a separation between Islamism and Islam, some will argue they´re the same, some will say they have nothing to do with each other. But what is clear is that is that Sharia support is not a fringe belief. In muslim countries it´s an overwhelming support, in European countries it´s reasonable to expect the same. Islam means submission, some interpretations are less forceful about it and some more violent and imposing, but that´s the aim, total subjugation. You can see their true face when you have cases like the attack on Charlie Hebdo etc. Many muslims will condemn it but an astounding number will excuse it. The rot is there, under the surface.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

it's not hard at all: all Western Countries monitor Mosque attendance and keep a close eye on Muslim organizations.
Things only get tricky when groups that push for more extreme versions of Islam are openly and financially supported by countries that are nominally Allies of the West, i.e. Saudi Arabia and Turkey (and these two are working against each other, no chance of cooperation).

The solution is, of course, integration and shielding from outside government influence, so that religious and ethnic minorities can find their own place in a tolerant and pluralistic society. All studies show that, given the opportunity, migrants are more than willing and able to fully integrate and support the secular country they have chosen instead of the one they were born in.

Never mind the fact that basically no Western Country could support its public works, construction, healthcare and hospitality sectors if it wasn't for migrant workers.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

false. Only a minority of muslims are "islamist", and the majority of immigrants to Europe aren't Muslim in the first place

He's going to say it still adds up to a lot of people. As if every group doesn't have a minority of extremists.

 

[Flo]

I agree that Russian propaganda pushes an extreme, stupid version of this "great replacement" idea in order to aid their interests. But lying is much easier when you can base it in some truth.

It´s hard to know the percentage of Muslims that support Islamism. It´s an ever changing continuum, some are fully sold, some against it, some in the middle, then get radicalised, then back... it´s quite impossible to measure properly. There´s also not that much of a separation between Islamism and Islam, some will argue they´re the same, some will say they have nothing to do with each other. But what is clear is that is that Sharia support is not a fringe belief. In muslim countries it´s an overwhelming support, in European countries it´s reasonable to expect the same. Islam means submission, some interpretations are less forceful about it and some more violent and imposing, but that´s the aim, total subjugation. You can see their true face when you have cases like the attack on Charlie Hebdo etc. Many muslims will condemn it but an astounding number will excuse it. The rot is there, under the surface.

In short, you've just debunked your own nonsense …

 

[Flo]

it's not hard at all: all Western Countries monitor Mosque attendance and keep a close eye on Muslim organizations.
Things only get tricky when groups that push for more extreme versions of Islam are openly and financially supported by countries that are nominally Allies of the West, i.e. Saudi Arabia and Turkey (and these two are working against each other, no chance of cooperation).

The solution is, of course, integration and shielding from outside government influence, so that religious and ethnic minorities can find their own place in a tolerant and pluralistic society. All studies show that, given the opportunity, migrants are more than willing and able to fully integrate and support the secular country they have chosen instead of the one they were born in.

Never mind the fact that basically no Western Country could support its public works, construction, healthcare and hospitality sectors if it wasn't for migrant workers.

Admitting the above would mean depriving oneself of the scapegoats necessary to hide the real causes and remedies to one's country problems …

 

[Abooga]

it's not hard at all: all Western Countries monitor Mosque attendance and keep a close eye on Muslim organizations.
Things only get tricky when groups that push for more extreme versions of Islam are openly and financially supported by countries that are nominally Allies of the West, i.e. Saudi Arabia and Turkey (and these two are working against each other, no chance of cooperation).

The solution is, of course, integration and shielding from outside government influence, so that religious and ethnic minorities can find their own place in a tolerant and pluralistic society. All studies show that, given the opportunity, migrants are more than willing and able to fully integrate and support the secular country they have chosen instead of the one they were born in.

Never mind the fact that basically no Western Country could support its public works, construction, healthcare and hospitality sectors if it wasn't for migrant workers.

Not all migrants are the same. Here in Spain south americans, african christians, Filipinos, or eastern europeans etc integrate very well. Muslims hardly integrate at all. A tolerant society is badly equipped to deal with this.

And regarding the need for immigration in order to support public works, that doesn´t seem to be so simple

Denmark says 'non-Western' immigrants cost state 31 billion kroner

The cost to the state of immigration from countries defines as ‘non-Western’ was 31 billion kroner in 2018, according to an annual report from the Danish Ministry of Finance.

www.thelocal.dk

 

[Helen]

I trust Western societies, and I think most of those wo have to flee, and come here, will see the advatages of living in open democracies where their rights are observed. That's what has happened with the immigrants from the Balkan wars - the far right were up in arms, threatening us with the great replacement theory back thrn as well. Didn't happen. They seem to have liked living here, and haven't tried to take over. They have also become far more secular since thrn, and the kids who have been born here are as Swedish as their peers. This will happen again, it will take longer, perhaps, the cultural differencies are greater, but it will happen, I have seen enough of the kids who have come here since 2015 to trust that it will.

And as for a huge percentage of them being islamists, I seriously doubt that.

 

[Abooga]

I trust Western societies, and I think most of those wo have to flee, and come here, will see the advatages of living in open democracies where their rights are observed. That's what has happened with the immigrants from the Balkan wars - the far right were up in arms, threatening us with the great replacement theory back thrn as well. Didn't happen. They seem to have liked living here, and haven't tried to take over. They have also become far more secular since thrn, and the kids who have been born here are as Swedish as their peers. This will happen again, it will take longer, perhaps, the cultural differencies are greater, but it will happen, I have seen enough of the kids who have come here since 2015 to trust that it will.

And as for a huge percentage of them being islamists, I seriously doubt that.

I used to think like that. When it comes to muslims now I think it depends on their quantity, the critical mass when they become a problem. In my town I saw the first come some 30 years ago. They integrated fully, became very European looking (no hiyab or anything) fully mixed with the locals in everything. Slowly more and more came and then the first imams came. They started to impose hiyabs, separation from the locals etc. Integration fully stopped. The bigger the town and the more of them in it, more ghettoes, burkhas etc. Most of them are fine people in a personal level but the horrible cult that they are forced to follow is something that we shouldn´t ignore. The higher their number the more problems they will cause. It´s not an issue of their race, it´s the religion, wholly incompatible with western values. They themselves are victims of it, they can´t escape, they get killed if they do.

I mean, all of those comments of yours downplaying it don`t mention that. In islam the official position is death to apostasy.

How can you pretend that a religion such as this is anything but a dangerous cult? If someone made it up today if would be banned and prosecuted. But there are so many millions of them that we have to pretend it´s not insane. Will western societies tame them and turn them tolerant? There´s little hope for that at the moment.