Islam and multiculturalism article

[RelentlessPunishment]

I don't want to get into any extended discussion about this, because these forums are addictive and I mustn't, but I thought this was a good article that reflects my own opinions as to why islam should be singled out to some degree when critiquing religion in society. I can't help thinking that if Robert Spencer suggested some of what's said he'd be accused of 'islamophobia', irrationality, and paranoia and asked to justify his claims. To me it's a good example of intellecutual jihad. I sent in a comment, but it they didn't publish it, which probably wasn't surprising considering what I said:

Secularism in Crisis? Muslims and the Challenge of Multiculturalism

The ABC religion site's really good if you like the kind of thing discussed on this forum.

 

[Quietus]

I can't help thinking that if Robert Spencer suggested some of what's said he'd be accused of 'islamophobia', irrationality, and paranoia and asked to justify his claims. .

No idea who he is, but the first story I looked at on spencer's site was taken from a tabloid, without the necessary qualifiers. In fact, given the general tone of his site, why even mention it?

On the other hand, the ABC article is a lot more considered, at least thats what a cursory reading suggests and will provide my thoughts on that once i've hd opportunity to properly read it.

 

[Carnivore]

Secularism and multicuturalism affect everyone living in a secular society. At the end of the day a religion is defined by it's believers, who are all individual human beings. Those Muslims who live in a secular Western society are likely to be more tolerant and progressive than those living in a theocracy. Each generation born into a secular society is likely to become more secular.

Anecdotal example: My team at work is made up of 12 people, of whom 5 are from Muslim backgrounds. Of those, one is transgender and an avowed atheist. One has no religious belief but identifies strongly with his religious cultural community. One is a young woman who believes but goes along with religious ritual mostly for the sake of family. Her Ramadan fasting has been an epic fail, to general amusement. One is a devout young father. One is a believer with a mostly secular lifestyle.

4 of the 5 drink alcohol, 3 of them go regularly to bars and clubs.

Religious fanaticism and intolerance are real problems, as are reactionary attitudes held by religious believers. The only possible solution is education and a good way to start is by having the believers live in a secular society. My impression is that British Muslims are becoming secularised far more than Britain is becoming Islamified.

 

[megaresp]

My impression is that British Muslims are becoming secularised far more than Britain is becoming Islamified.

My impression also. And hardly surprising considering the obvious benefits, comfort, safety, rights and lifestyle that those of us who live in a modern secular nation take for granted.

 

[Quietus]

Interesting article. The first paragraph of Carnivore's post summed it up nicely, but I'd add that the descendants of immigrants also tend to be more secular (generally speaking of course - there are a good number of counter-examples) in their beliefs in tandem with the surrounding society.

 

[Humes fork]

My impression also. And hardly surprising considering the obvious benefits, comfort, safety, rights and lifestyle that those of us who live in a modern secular nation take for granted.

My impression as well. Though my impression is that it differs very much between immigrants from different countries. Iranians tend to be very secular, Afghans and somalis pretty religious. Of course, exceptions in all directions exist.

 

[MG1962]

I think a secular society lets many barriers break down. Nothing brings people together better than shared experiences.

 

[Giz]

Those Muslims who live in a secular Western society are likely to be more tolerant and progressive than those living in a theocracy. Each generation born into a secular society is likely to become more secular.

And yet in Britain, surveys tell the opposite story: that the younger generations are more radicalized than their parents (often laid at the door of the relatively recent influx of Saudi funded Wahhabi preaching).

 

[Robrob]

I don't want to get into any extended discussion about this, because these forums are addictive and I mustn't, but I thought this was a good article that reflects my own opinions as to why islam should be singled out to some degree when critiquing religion in society. I can't help thinking that if Robert Spencer suggested some of what's said he'd be accused of 'islamophobia', irrationality, and paranoia and asked to justify his claims. To me it's a good example of intellecutual jihad. I sent in a comment, but it they didn't publish it, which probably wasn't surprising considering what I said:

Because it's the flavor of the moment?

And yet in Britain, surveys tell the opposite story: that the younger generations are more radicalized than their parents (often laid at the door of the relatively recent influx of Saudi funded Wahhabi preaching).

So all Muslims aren't radical or dangerous, just the young underemployed ones? And especially those succumbing to the influence of our friends the Saudis?