Islam, a religion of peace? LOL

[The Fool]

Again, for the umpteenth time, the thread is about muslim culture. The title may have tipped you off, in its subtle way.

Start your own thread if you want to set the terms of the debate. If you do, you may want to consider a more careful analysis than "it sucks."

you are correct and I apologise...this thread is only for dumping on muslims.

 

[demon]

Even casually and pragmatically subordinating human welfare to imperialism will secure horrors on both sides. One begets the other.
Think how many thousands of other people died more horrific deaths yesterday due to the subordination of human welfare - without comment or mourning in the US press. In fact, given the relative human suffering involved, I think the former is demonstrably worse.
There was no torture involved, the people were shot dead and then their bodies were mutilated from every internet report I can find. Mutilating a corpse is obviously bestial, but such bestiality is driven by impotent rage and the only sadism involved might be the unintented effect to the relatives of the dead. It is no more of a murder than the ten thousand plus killed in the invasion and unmourned and uncounted by the palpably hypocritical US press. Who was it who said "we don`t do numbers"? Hmm, depends who they are as always.

Both of these where already dead and hanging upside down in a war-zone, as opposed to the innocents hung by the neck for the colour of their skin by US racists.

 

[Jocko]

you are correct and I apologise...this thread is only for dumping on muslims.

Tactful retreat, Fool. See you in your thread, if you ever get around to it.

 

[waitew]

Yes,evil people do evil things here in America (people dragged death behind trucks or killed because sexual preference etc) & when such things happen the Vast,vast majority of Americans are outraged & appalled.Compare that to the 'dancing in the streets' & rejoicing seen in Islamic countries when similar things are done!
That's the difference!!Here it's a few bad apples & there its (allmost) the whole bunch!

 

[The Fool]

Tactful retreat, Fool. See you in your thread, if you ever get around to it.

actually Jocko old son....you missed it. Shame really, you could have given Jocko's law another walk

If you are interested it was about who was inferior out of Americans and Israelis....and you'll never guess what ...The Scottish came from behind and beat them both!

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
I'm not the one that arrived with the half ass theory that different cultures are more or less evolved... As soon as I ask you to apply jocko's law to other examples it falls apart like a card house.... I think it needs more work before you consider publishing. As a general rule it plainly sucks... But ,of course, its not just a rule you apply exclusively to muslims..you could apply it to others if you really really wanted to...you just don't want to.

In what way does it fall apart? These other cultures you mentioned score high marks in these criteria.

If you want to break them down and rate nations individually, that’s already done. Aren’t there annual statistics published comparing the quality of public education of the various industrialized nations? Are there no organizations tracking women’s rights among the different nations? Certainly there are all kinds of organizations that track economic development.

Value judgments are made all the time between various nations and their different ways of doing things. The difference is you only seem to notice when the value judgment is made against some non-western culture.

 

[demon]

Focusing on the morality of the occupied and not of the occupier especially when you represent the occupier is wrong.
To criticise people for reacting violently to violence perpetrated upon them is deliberatley biasing the argument. The question is why the Americans are allowed to act like some demented Mike Tyson, raping and pilaging without similar criticism.

 

[The Fool]

In what way does it fall apart? These other cultures you mentioned score high marks in these criteria.

If you want to break them down and rate nations individually, that’s already done. Aren’t there annual statistics published comparing the quality of public education of the various industrialized nations? Are there no organizations tracking women’s rights among the different nations? Certainly there are all kinds of organizations that track economic development.

Can you point me to the organisation that uses these indicators to decide which culture is more evolved? I still can't find out from anyone which is the most evolved culture....

Value judgments are made all the time between various nations and their different ways of doing things. The difference is you only seem to notice when the value judgment is made against some non-western culture.
I notice that the only time a value judgement seems to be made around here is when it is judging muslims or Arabs to be inferior... These clowns tell me that thier judgement is accurate and applicable yet they melt away like spring snow if asked to apply that same keen judgement closer to home.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by demon Even casually and pragmatically subordinating human welfare to imperialism will secure horrors on both sides. One begets the other.In what way was human welfare subordinated to imperialism?
Think how many thousands of other people died more horrific deaths yesterday due to the subordination of human welfare - without comment or mourning in the US press.I’m thinking, who are these thousands? In fact, given the relative human suffering involved, I think the former is demonstrably worse.
There was no torture involved, the people were shot dead and then their bodies were mutilated from every internet report I can find. Mutilating a corpse is obviously bestial, but such bestiality is driven by impotent rageDriven by impotent rage? Then there must have been a lot of such bestial rage under Saddam’s rule. Was there? and the only sadism involved might be the unintendedIf it’s unintended, it’s not sadism. What evidence do you have it was unintended? effect to the relatives of the dead. It is no more of a murder than the ten thousand plus killed in the invasion and unmourned and uncounted by the palpably hypocritical US press. I disagree. I think that when the bodies are burned, dragged, and then hung for display that makes it more of a murder. That’s in addition to the difference in the goals of the perpetuators. Who was it who said "we don`t do numbers"? Hmm, depends who they are as always.

Both of these where already dead and hanging upside down in a war-zone, as opposed to the innocents hung by the neck for the colour of their skin by US racists. Interesting comparison. A good one, I think.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
Can you point me to the organisation that uses these indicators to decide which culture is more evolved? I still can't find out from anyone which is the most evolved culture....

No, I’m far too lazy, but I think you will get the results you want if you just google for organizations that use the term third world.

Originally posted by The Fool
I notice that the only time a value judgement seems to be made around here is when it is judging muslims or Arabs to be inferior... These clowns tell me that thier judgement is accurate and applicable yet they melt away like spring snow if asked to apply that same keen judgement closer to home.

You must have missed these threads, or any thread started by AUP.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37481

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37030

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36053

 

[The Fool]

No, I’m far too lazy, but I think you will get the results you want if you just google for organizations that use the term third world
You are not that lazy Unfortunately "third world" is not the same as "evolved" My view is that when people talk "third world" they are really talking GDP.


You must have missed these threads, or any thread started by AUP.

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37481

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37030

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36053
These threads seem to talk about various measurable facts. Life expectancy, infant mortality etc... how does that relate to sweeping claims of levels of "evolution" and other vague generalities like how much "love of peace" there is in a society... what is the "love of peace" index?

In times of world conflict there seems to me to be two options, you can attempt to grapple with, and try to understand the complexities or you can slip on your comfy shoes, sit back and relax, because it is all due to the inherant lack of some meaningless term like "evolution" of the huns or the japs or the jews or the gooks or the Christians or the Arabs or the Americans or those sneaky Canadians or whoever you think is the best match for your own prejudices.

 

[bva]

Its horrible but Im sure the monsters that run amuck on this board touting their holier then thou beliefs will somehow twist it into being George Bush's hand that threw the grenade and his belt that was used to string them up.

I say we level the place and start from scratch and I say those that dont agree maybe should fly over and act as a "human shield" to preserve peace in another simply misunderstood society. 2 birds with one stone.. blech.. but hey, dont forget your Mcdonalds 99 cent heart attack and your pamphlet that tells you that obesity is because of a genetic dispostion and not the fact you eat 5kcal's a meal as you must be the same people. You know the guy/girl that always has a self legitimized excuses for the insanity they deliver under the guise of legitimate thought. They are smokin the same shizit they excrete. Thats what great is only here do people pat themselves on the back for somehow finding justification of some horror show of people danicng as if they won a lottery at the site of magled corpses and its these same know it all's that look themselves in the face and feel real good about how their brains are wired. Jesus loves you! Oh im sorry he doesnt exist, the only thing exists is your own image in themirror for that is all you ego-monsters worship.

Go Bush.. Make them pay!

 

[bva]

Yes,evil people do evil things here in America (people dragged death behind trucks or killed because sexual preference etc) & when such things happen the Vast,vast majority of Americans are outraged & appalled.Compare that to the 'dancing in the streets' & rejoicing seen in Islamic countries when similar things are done!
That's the difference!!Here it's a few bad apples & there its (allmost) the whole bunch!

I wouldnt even try to justify it. Your dealing with one aussie who's bloodline traces back to probably a british rapist and the limey who throws stones from the largest glass castle in the world. Yeah England has nothing to friggin talk about. These hypocrites never cease to amaze me. They are sad and scared which is the only excuse for their blind disregard to the truth.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by The Fool
You are not that lazy Unfortunately "third world" is not the same as "evolved" My view is that when people talk "third world" they are really talking GDP.

Same thing, just measured by a different criteria. If you want to argue that a better term could have been chosen than evolved then I could agree with you, but the essential point is the same.

Originally posted by The Fool
These threads seem to talk about various measurable facts. Life expectancy, infant mortality etc... how does that relate to sweeping claims of levels of "evolution" and other vague generalities like how much "love of peace" there is in a society... what is the "love of peace" index?

Just because it’s hard to put a number on it doesn’t make it any less real. Love of peace index? Well, in many parts of the world, when you want to change the society you’re in, you get together with like minded people and try to convince people. You write letters, raise money, get the word out, and support a political candidate or party that agrees with you. In other parts of the world, you get together with like minded people, raise money, buy weapons and form a terrorist cell. Can you attach numbers to these different behaviors and create an index? Sure, but it’s a lot easier to just say that one culture favors ways of doing things that are less violent than the other.

Originally posted by The Fool
In times of world conflict there seems to me to be two options, you can attempt to grapple with, and try to understand the complexities or you can slip on your comfy shoes, sit back and relax, because it is all due to the inherant lack of some meaningless term like "evolution" of the huns or the japs or the jews or the gooks or the Christians or the Arabs or the Americans or those sneaky Canadians or whoever you think is the best match for your own prejudices.

Then sometimes after you’ve grappled with the complexities and have come to understand them, you find that you can reduce them to a sound-bite.

 

[epepke]

Of course not. But does that mean we have to wait another thousand years for the loudest voices of fundamentalist Islam to reach the 21st century?

Get with the program, dude.

Nothing about fundamentalist Islam can ever be criticized because

1) A Christian shot an abortion doctor in the head half a decade ago.

2) There was a Christian inquisition half a millennium ago.

To say otherwise is exactly the same thing as spewing vitriolic hatred against all Muslims that have ever existed, and don't you forget it.

As for the question, well, probably yes.

 

[mummymonkey]

Such a thing could never happen here.

two British soldiers are seized by a mob while driving through republican west Belfast during the funerals of those killed at Milltown. They are dragged from their car and murdered

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/history/68885.stm

 

[Outcast]

Witnesses: U.S. Convoy in Iraq Attacked

By SAMEER N. YACOUB
Associated Press Writer
FALLUJAH, Iraq

Insurgents attacked a U.S. military convoy and a Humvee was burned Thursday near Fallujah, witnesses said, a day after the grisly killing and mutilation of four American civilians in the city.

It was not clear if there were any casualties in Thursday's assault. U.S. officials said they could not confirm the attack, although American forces briefly blocked roads leading into Fallujah _ a move that has often been done during fighting in recent weeks.

The attack occurred on a road a few miles outside the Sunni Triangle city, local resident Ahmad Tarek said.

 

[The Fool]

Well, in many parts of the world, when you want to change the society you’re in, you get together with like minded people and try to convince people. You write letters, raise money, get the word out, and support a political candidate or party that agrees with you.

yes...when you have rule of law and a functional judiciary and civil order many things are possible.

In other parts of the world, you get together with like minded people, raise money, buy weapons and form a terrorist cell. Can you attach numbers to these different behaviors and create an index? Sure, but it’s a lot easier to just say that one culture favors ways of doing things that are less violent than the other.

And you are sure it has more to do with the culture than the circumstances people are in? What about people who have lived in a warzone all thier lives? What about people who have grown up with the rule of the gun and bomb rather than the rule of law..



Then sometimes after you’ve grappled with the complexities and have come to understand them, you find that you can reduce them to a sound-bite.
Simplify things to the point where a simple answer will suffice?

 

[The Fool]

I wouldnt even try to justify it. Your dealing with one aussie who's bloodline traces back to probably a british rapist and the limey who throws stones from the largest glass castle in the world. Yeah England has nothing to friggin talk about. These hypocrites never cease to amaze me. They are sad and scared which is the only excuse for their blind disregard to the truth.

Did anyone order an Idiot? I think someone has delivered this one to the wrong forum.

Don't presume you know anything about me , or my bloodlines....

 

[Cleon]

Moderators: Please move thread to "Flamewar."

There's obviously nothing even remotely approaching rational discourse here.