Merged Is ufology a pseudoscience?

[RoboTimbo]

It's easy to sit back and chant "show me the poof" and lump everything into the trash can that doesn't fit that narrow focus on reality. The fact is that there is a wider reality, and to deny its existence is to limit one's own perspective on the world.

j.r.

If you are going to deliberately choose the route of pseudoscience, you don't get to stamp your foot and say we're meanies for calling it pseudoscience.

UFOlogy is pseudoscience and you pseudoscientists prove it with every post. If you want to believe in your "wider reality" then you must also believe that UFOlogy is pseudoscience.

 

[Agatha]

The aliens are gay?

It's the anal probes.

 

[tsig]

As everyone can see the above is a clear misrepresentation. I've never claimed to have a null hypothesis, and I've gone so far as to explain why more than once, yet the above simply ignores that fact and goes on to claim I do and then uses it to slap the pseudoscience label on again. It's as if the skeptics want ufology to be a pseudoscience so that they can have fun attacking it instead of doing something useful.

j.r.

Ok UFOlogy isn't pseudo science it's just woo.

 

[tsig]

I value human experience much more than those who make a habit of dismissing it. A lot of ufologists think that eventually we'll get scientific proof, but I think it is just as likely that these craft will stop visiting Earth and those of us who have seen them will pass on, and the whole era will be relegated to myth. If that happens, our collective experiences are all that future historians will have as a reference. So it is important for those of us who have had an experience significant enough to leave us with no doubt, to state our cases for the record.

j.r.

So your own personal experience is the baseline for all science. All the world has to somehow bow to what you think you saw because you could never be fooled.

 

[Correa Neto]

OK, let's not dump everything in to the garbage can. This means we need criteria to decide what will or not be dumped. Objective, unbiased criteria which when used by different people will return similar results. Got some?

Which of the examples below will be dumped or not and why?

Trindade island UFO picture.
Belgian triangle UFO picture.
"Alien hair" case.
Hills abduction case.
Villas-Boas abduction case.
The "black souless aliens with glowing red eyes" abdution case.
Zamora's sighting.
VW Beetle-sized glowing light making figures "8" in the sky.
"No less than six" star-like objects flickering like electrons around an atom coming out of a cigar-shaped cloud and merging to form a "big-ass" version of themselves.
Adamsky contacts.
"Ashtar Sheran's messages".
Eartsister's contacts.
Phoenix lights
[Add UFO case here]

 

[tsig]

It's easy to sit back and chant "show me the poof" and lump everything into the trash can that doesn't fit that narrow focus on reality. The fact is that there is a wider reality, and to deny its existence is to limit one's own perspective on the world.

j.r.

Focusing on reality is narrow minded?

 

[Akhenaten]

Focusing on reality is narrow minded?

Unless it's ufology's reality. Then it becomes teh Truth™.


It's out there somewhere, apparently.

 

[tsig]

Unless it's ufology's reality. Then it becomes teh Truth™.


It's out there somewhere, apparently.

It rises from beyond the mountain does figure eights in the sky then shoots off at 25km per second without making a sound.

 

[TheFallOfUriGeller]

if you cant explain something you see - why does it always have to be goverment cover up, ufo's etc.. until there is hard evidence i remain unconvinced.

the universe exspands a billion miles in every direction every hour, the world travells at approx 50,000 mph, our galaxy travells at 900,000 mph and spins at approx 100,000mph (well the stars within do)

so i just find it astonoshing in these same bloody things keep finding us. i mean they travell all that way to get to earth then get caught on camera out of focus for a few seconds up to 5 mins then off they go... doesnt sound like intelligent life to me!

 

[ufology]

if you cant explain something you see - why does it always have to be goverment cover up, ufo's etc.. until there is hard evidence i remain unconvinced.

The above is a typical oversimplification of what's going on with respect to UFOs. It's not as though one person here or there had a strange experience and it suddenly became a government cover-up.

It is a fact that there have been numerous studies by private and governmental agencies throughout the world spanning decades. It is a fact that governments have had secret files for many years and still refuse to release all of them. It is a fact that investigations involved genuine scientists. It is a fact that sightings by reliable credible people including military and civilian pilots could not be attibuted to any known natural or manmade phenomenon of the day. And it was only after these investigations that some people propose that UFOs could be alien spacecraft.

So before making offhanded remarks of dismissal, try actually reading Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good. Don't be afraid. It's only a book. It's safe to look at the words and consider what is being said in the context of a historical review of actual events. You've been armed with the tools of skepticism and are now prepared to look at a wider reality without being led astray by the extremes. It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons.

j.r.

 

[TheFallOfUriGeller]

The above is a typical oversimplification of what's going on with respect to UFOs. It's not as though one person here or there had a strange experience and it suddenly became a government cover-up.

It is a fact that there have been numerous studies by private and governmental agencies throughout the world spanning decades. It is a fact that governments have had secret files for many years and still refuse to release all of them. It is a fact that investigations involved genuine scientists. It is a fact that sightings by reliable credible people including military and civilian pilots could not be attibuted to any known natural or manmade phenomenon of the day. And it was only after these investigations that some people propose that UFOs could be alien spacecraft.

So before making offhanded remarks of dismissal, try actually reading Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good. Don't be afraid. It's only a book. It's safe to look at the words and consider what is being said in the context of a historical review of actual events. You've been armed with the tools of skepticism and are now prepared to look at a wider reality without being led astray by the extremes. It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons.

j.r.

"It is a fact that governments have had secret files for many years and still refuse to release all of them" - maybe because thats their choice and it might be their proto type air craft that have been seen.

"It is a fact that investigations involved genuine scientists." - probably but as per james randi "even scientist can be fooled"

"It is a fact that sightings by reliable credible people including military and civilian pilots could not be attibuted to any known natural or manmade phenomenon of the day" - they fly planes there not scientist or specialst in weather or natural phenomanon - so how do you know they havent come across something perfectly normal its just they havent seen it before?

"So before making offhanded remarks of dismissal, try actually reading Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good." - will it explain why these things show up and dissapear for no reason? just a yes or no answer will do. because its a long way to travel to flash their intergalatic indicators to a plane then off they go again, whats the point??

"You've been armed with the tools of skepticism and are now prepared to look at a wider reality without being led astray by the extremes" - i know its a terrible thing to ask for evidence, proof i wonder what life would be like if nobody asked questions or asked for proof??
again how intelligent is something to travell all the way to earth, show its self then off it goes why not introduce its self? its the space version of knock a door run..

" It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons." - i mean you have just lost the arguement with that.. i wish id have read that bit 1st save me replying to the other comments

 

[Akhenaten]

The above is a typical oversimplification of what's going on with respect to UFOs. It's not as though one person here or there had a strange experience and it suddenly became a government cover-up.

Yeah, only half the ufonuts believe in gubmint cover-ups. The rest are pseudoscientists.

It is a fact that there have been numerous studies by private and governmental agencies throughout the world spanning decades.

How many flying saucers and/or Martians have they turned up?

It is a fact that governments have had secret files for many years and still refuse to release all of them. It is a fact that investigations involved genuine scientists.

And from this you infer???

It is a fact that sightings by reliable credible people including military and civilian pilots could not be attibuted to any known natural or manmade phenomenon of the day.

Hence the term 'UFO'.

And it was only after these investigations that some people propose that UFOs could be alien spacecraft.

Except for the untold thousands of people who see a firefly or a blimp or a flying volkswagen and run around in ever-decreasing circles going "OMG . . . aliens!!!"

So before making offhanded remarks of dismissal, try actually reading Beyond Top Secret by Timothy Good. Don't be afraid. It's only a book. It's safe to look at the words and consider what is being said in the context of a historical review of actual events.

Are there any Martians in it?

You've been armed with the tools of skepticism and are now prepared to look at a wider reality without being led astray by the extremes. It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons.

j.r.

The fairytale theme is quite appropriate.

 

[Akhenaten]

It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons.

I mean you have just lost the arguement with that.. i wish id have read that bit 1st save me replying to the other comments

Slip of the fingers. He meant to say 'light sabre' and 'banthas', which would of course have made sense of the whole thi . . .

Oh, wait . . . maybe not.

 

[TheFallOfUriGeller]

there is no doubt UFOLOGY feels passionate about ufo's / et's - what actually took place for him / her to involve themself deep into the ufo scene / belief?

if its a personal experience id love to hear about it...

 

[RoboTimbo]

And it was only after these investigations that some people propose that UFOs could be alien spacecraft.

j.r.

Yes people who don't use critical thinking skills. Pseudoscientists, if you will. Your null hypothesis of "Earth is being visitied by objects of alien origin" is unfalsifiable and therefore makes UFOlogy a pseudoscience.

A falsifiable null hypothesis of "All UFO sightings are the result of mundane explanations" would help lift UFOlogy out of the point and laugh stage of pseudoscience.

Why would you not want to have a falsifiable null hypothesis so that UFOlogy could start down the road to respectability? If you don't begin with a falsifiable hypothesis then UFOlogy will remain a pseudoscience.

 

[GeeMack]

there is no doubt UFOLOGY feels passionate about ufo's / et's - what actually took place for him / her to involve themself deep into the ufo scene / belief?

if its a personal experience id love to hear about it...

He was brought up believing aliens are visiting Earth. And much like someone raised in a fervently religious setting who hears the voice of god, he sees aliens. Of course if it was just a matter of acknowledging faith in something for which no objective evidence exists, we wouldn't be discussing pseudoscience. There's the pretense of objectively studying UFOs to "illuminate the truth" (in plain English, the predetermined conclusion that unidentified flying things are extraterrestrials). And that is what makes "ufology" pseudoscience.

Of course like any good proselytizer for a religion, he'll be happy to tell you all about it. It's not especially on topic for this thread, but the whole story, made up one little piece at a time over several decades, can be found in the thread entitled "Extraterrestrials". Keep in mind the pseudo-scientific credo which was acknowledged here in this thread, to a "ufologist", truth and reality are two completely separate things...

Truth and reality are two seaparate issues. Therefore truth itself doesn't correspond to objective reality or any other reality.

"Ufology" doesn't involve critical thinking. It doesn't have to. It's pseudoscience.

 

[Akhenaten]

there is no doubt UFOLOGY feels passionate about ufo's / et's - what actually took place for him / her to involve themself deep into the ufo scene / belief?

if its a personal experience id love to hear about it...

Follow GeeMack's link, but as you go, remember this:

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Pseudoscience Zone". ​

 

[ufology]

He was brought up believing aliens are visiting Earth. And much like someone raised in a fervently religious setting who hears the voice of god, he sees aliens. Of course if it was just a matter of acknowledging faith in something for which no objective evidence exists, we wouldn't be discussing pseudoscience. There's the pretense of objectively studying UFOs to "illuminate the truth" (in plain English, the predetermined conclusion that unidentified flying things are extraterrestrials). And that is what makes "ufology" pseudoscience.

Of course like any good proselytizer for a religion, he'll be happy to tell you all about it. It's not especially on topic for this thread, but the whole story, made up one little piece at a time over several decades, can be found in the thread entitled "Extraterrestrials". Keep in mind the pseudo-scientific credo which was acknowledged here in this thread, to a "ufologist", truth and reality are two completely separate things...

"Ufology" doesn't involve critical thinking. It doesn't have to. It's pseudoscience.

Naturally GeeMack is misrepresenting me again. If he'd read my posts about this in the past he might also remember I grew up with a respect for science and that my father was a Geologist and a skeptic who provided explanations for some of Von Daniken's AAH theories, and that he was never convinced that UFOs represent any extraterrestrial alien phenomenon.

The reason I was open to the possibility of alien visitation is because unlike my parents, I was growing up watching the real space race, knew space travel was possible, had read the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by the first head of the USAF Project Blue Book, which makes a powerful case that they are real, and personally knew two family members whom I trusted who had seen one. Over the years I've talked with many other people who have seen them and I had a sighting of one myself. I have really good personal reasons for believing what I do.

j.r.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Naturally GeeMack is misrepresenting me again. If he'd read my posts about this in the past he might remember I also grew up with a respect for science and that my father was a Geologist and a skeptic who provided explanations for some of Von Daniken's AAH theories, and that he was never convinced that UFOs represent any extraterrestrial alien phenomenon. The reason I was open to the possibility of alien visitation is because unlike my parents, I was growing up watching the real space race, knew space travel was possible, had read the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by the first head of the USAF Project Blue Book, which makes a powerful case that they are real, and personally knew two family members whom I trusted who had seen one.

j.r.

The above is pseudoscience.

If I haven't mentioned it already, I'm really glad you resurrected this thread.

 

[John Albert]

Don't be afraid. It's only a book. It's safe to look at the words and consider what is being said in the context of a historical review of actual events. You've been armed with the tools of skepticism and are now prepared to look at a wider reality without being led astray by the extremes. It's time to wade out of the shallow safe end of the pool, time to take your sword and leave the gates of the castle and venture out into the coutryside. You'll find it's not necessary to slay everyone out there ... they're not all witches. Take the time to listen to them. Most of them are good people ... and some of them have seen dragons.

Wait a minute, since when did credulity equal bravery?

At what point did intelligence and mental discipline suddenly become equated with being coddled or sheltered?

This is another example of the arrogance I was talking about earlier.

Apparently you never got the memo, ufology, so let me fill you in on the news: living your life in Fantasyland among the imaginary, fairy-tale monsters doesn't make you brave. Quite the contrary, in fact.

A far greater test of courage is to put on your pants and shirt, venture out of the safety of your parents' basement, and do the hard work of actually contributing something of value to humanity. Having your intellect, skills, and ideas challenged by the complexities of the Universe and the intellect of your peers is what requires real bravery. It's comparatively easy and safe to sit in an intellectual vacuum, spinning a bunch of BS stories on the Internet for all your credulous friends to "ooh" and "aah" over, but never to question, as they pretend to "study" as if it were actually going to make any difference at all in the real world.

Slip of the fingers. He meant to say 'light sabre' and 'banthas', which would of course have made sense of the whole thi . . .

Oh, wait . . . maybe not.

Dude, that was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.