Merged Is ufology a pseudoscience?

John Albert said:
That much water alone would weigh 2,190 Imperial tons, or 2,220 metric tons, not even considering the weight of whatever material the tank itself was constructed of.
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You obviously weren't following the complex plot, it was full of secret German anti-gravity water that doesn't weigh anything. :D
 
John Albert said:
I think the aliens might get a little upset when they see you're misusing their "henge" to prop up your swimming pool.
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Hey, I put the words in your mouth! Don't misattribute my characterization of your words to me!

You think the aliens bought it? :boxedin:
 
Typicallucas said:
This may have already been said in the 40+ pages of this thread but it is the execution and method of an investigation that makes it science or pseudoscience.

In the same way that medicine can be studied scientifically or pseudoscientifically so can ufology, cosmology, or whatever. I imagine there would be a pitiful lack of credible evidence when it comes to alien visits to Earth but I suppose there are fields related to "ufos" that would be of great interest.
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UFO reports can be studied without resorting to "ufology."

They can be investigated from a sociological or psychological perspective, for example, and that could be done using legitimate, honest scientific procedure.

What makes ufology a pseudoscience is that it works the process of science ass-backwards, assuming unproven paranormal conclusions, then seeking evidence to prove them while dismissing viable non-paranormal causes.
 
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Typicallucas said:
This may have already been said in the 40+ pages of this thread but it is the execution and method of an investigation that makes it science or pseudoscience.

In the same way that medicine can be studied scientifically or pseudoscientifically so can ufology, cosmology, or whatever. I imagine there would be a pitiful lack of credible evidence when it comes to alien visits to Earth but I suppose there are fields related to "ufos" that would be of great interest.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that ufology itself can't be critically evaluated. Or that Unidentified Flying Object can't be studied using the scientific method. But so far I have seen a lot of evidence that institutions like the USI use a lot of pseudoscience.
 
Turgor said:
I don't think anyone is arguing that ufology itself can't be critically evaluated. Or that Unidentified Flying Object can't be studied using the scientific method. But so far I have seen a lot of evidence that institutions like the USI use a lot of pseudoscience.
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Yes, only the pseudoscientists who begin with their conclusion of PseudoAliens or "aliens" or aliens or ET get the label. They are also the only ones who argue that it isn't pseudoscience. They don't mind doing it, they just don't want to be called it. :)
 
Turgor, you should go back and read the last 5 or 6 pages of this thread. Ufology is not critical evaluation. It's a pseudoscience that assumes that unidentified things are aliens (or other paranormal beings), simply by virtue of the fact that they're unidentified.

There are organizations that collect sighting reports and conduct investigations of unknown objects in the skies (from an air travel safety perspective, for example), but these organizations are not "ufology" organizations, nor do they claim to be.


"If they're relating gravity to quantum physics, we're talking about time travel." :eek:

WOW! I totally didn't know that.
 
John Albert said:
Turgor, you should go back and read the last 5 or 6 pages of this thread. Ufology is not critical evaluation. It's a pseudoscience that assumes that unidentified things are aliens (or other paranormal beings), simply by virtue of the fact that they're unidentified.

There are organizations that collect sighting reports and conduct investigations of unknown objects in the skies (from an air travel safety perspective, for example), but these organizations are not "ufology" organizations, nor do they claim to be.


"If they're relating gravity to quantum physics, we're talking about time travel." :eek:

WOW! I totally didn't know that.
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I said that UFOlogy itself can be critically evaluated. I think this thread has done a great job in that respect. Then i made the distinction with studying Unidentified Flying Objects using the scientific method. I'm sorry if I was not clear enough in my previous post, but I totally agree with you.
 
I think the question should now be changed from; Is UFOlogy a pseudoscience?
to; has ufology lost interest in this forum?

It's not like him to skip a day. :boggled:
 
Turgor said:
I said that UFOlogy itself can be critically evaluated. I think this thread has done a great job in that respect. Then i made the distinction with studying Unidentified Flying Objects using the scientific method. I'm sorry if I was not clear enough in my previous post, but I totally agree with you.
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Right. There's no reason you can't study UFOs scientifically. It's been done, but nothing has been found that indicated anything conclusive beyond human error and fabricated stories. It's just like studying any kind of folklore, really.

I think that's why ufologists resort to pseudoscience. They're looking for something that the practice of science is incapable of providing.
 
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John Albert said:
Right. There's no reason you can't study UFOs scientifically, but you probably won't find much.

I think that's why ufologists resort to pseudoscience. They're looking for something that the practice of science is incapable of providing.
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Someone who believes aliens are real wouldn't find much to their liking if you expected to find aliens. But if you have no bias you might find all sorts of mundane explanation for UFO's, that is Unidentified Flying Objects (Unidentified, no more, no less. Definitely no pseudo- or any other aliens.)

But I can think of evidence that can convince me that a particular UFO is actually of alien origin, for example something material that when examinated falsifies the assumption it comes from our solar system.

ETA: reworded the first sentence so it doens't look like i say John Albert believes UFO = aliens.
 
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Turgor said:
You wouldn't find much to your liking if you expected to find aliens. But if you have no bias you might find all sorts of mundane explanation for UFO's, that is Unidentified Flying Objects (Unidentified, no more, no less. Definitely no pseudo- or any other aliens.)

But I can think of evidence that can convince me that a particular UFO is actually of alien origin, for example something material that when examinated falsifies the assumption it comes from our solar system.
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Unfortunately, you'll never get a pseudoscientist UFOlogist to agree to that as a null hypothesis even. Almost as if they know they can't falsify it. The pseudoscientists even fight tooth and nail against calling such evidence extraordinary. You would think they'd be the first in line to welcome such evidence. Almost as if they know that the only way to perpetuate their flying saucerey is to ensure that only stories are their evidence since they can't be falsified.

We're witnessing their pseudoscience in action.
 
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Typicallucas said:
This may have already been said in the 40+ pages of this thread but it is the execution and method of an investigation that makes it science or pseudoscience.

In the same way that medicine can be studied scientifically or pseudoscientifically so can ufology, cosmology, or whatever. I imagine there would be a pitiful lack of credible evidence when it comes to alien visits to Earth but I suppose there are fields related to "ufos" that would be of great interest.
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Which is of course precisely the point we have been making all along:

  • Ufology does not claim to be a science.
  • Ufology can legitimately use scientific methodologies without it being a science (History is a good example).
  • There are quacks and charlatans in every discipline (medicine is a good example) but we do not write off the whole field as pseudosceince.
  • The study of UFOs can obviously be a legitimate and scientific pursuit - and just because people may disagree - that alone does not mean the study of UFOs is (merely on the basis of that disageement) therefore necessarily pseudoscience.
 
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