Is U.S. education truly getting worse?

[Anerystos]

The ones that cause the most problems are often the ones with the harshest discipline at home. They dred the call home more than the 'deiscipline refferal'.

Now arrogant little snot balls from the middle class are another issue. they usually aren't as much of a problem.

My kid knows he has to write an essay for my wife if he acts out. He dreds that.

Funny niether of my kids were ever spanked, yet they self regulate rather well.

It is the consistancy of the parent's boundaries that matters.

Most parents get in trouble because they say one thing and then do another.

warn the child, give them a chance, enforce the consequence works really well.

The main problem is when parents whine, moan and yell but never set a consequence.

let the kids knwo that the TV is an earned priviledge, you don't meet the expectations, you don't get your TV.

It never ceased to amaze me when i was doing assesment, a parent would complain about thier kids behavior, and they had new clothes and a new haicut and new whatever.

I told them, it is just like a job, if your kid meets the expectation they earn the privilege.

Tell them that they have to not swear to earn the TV, if they swear, then they haven't earned it. It goes away that day and the next.

They would get real upset by the idea that thier child might have nothing in their room but a mattress and some clothes.

But hey, if they like to get punched by a child, that was their problem.

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

 

[bigred]

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

1 - This is a message board, where even those who know better don't always adhere to grammar as they otherwise would/should.

2 - er the whole glass houses/stones thing.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

Okay. You should not have capitalized "Education".

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

Um, you do know there are disorders out there that make writing a tad difficult?

Just saying, you might not want to seem like an ***.

 

[Dancing David]

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

Thank Dude!

WTFred, can you read? I am posting at work on my break at work. I am sorry I don't take the time to meet your high standards.

The fact that you can critique my grammar in a driveby posting means nothing. Your critical thinking skills are ZERO.

And for another DID I COMPLAIN ABOUT STANDARDS IN EDUCATION!

take your snotball straw man and go on a date, you need as life.

 

[Dancing David]

Um, you do know there are disorders out there that make writing a tad difficult?

Just saying, you might not want to seem like an ***.

It wasn't my dyslexia, it was just lazy posting.

 

[Anerystos]

bigred:

1 The point about using grammar in its conventional manner is that it makes the author’s point clearer. I have marked enough undergraduate essays to know that an inadequate grasp of conventional English is a major barrier to communication.

2 What “glass houses” had you in mind – or was this a generalised swipe at me to see if I would bite?

Jeff Corey:

Either capitalisation would be acceptable. It depends on whether I meant “education” or “Education”. Can I point out that in Welsh the term Dysgu means both “teacher” and “student”. I cannot “teach” without learning from my “students”, and I cannot “study” without “teaching” my “teacher”.

Tsukasa Buddha:

I am well aware that “… there are disorders out there that make writing a tad difficult …”. My first degree was in psychology.

Dancing David:

Ad hominem arguments do nothing to enhance the reputation of those who use them. My original posting was a criticism of your use of language: if you can write acceptable conventional English please do so. It would enable the rest of us to understand the points you are trying to make.

By the way, I do have a life. It encompasses five sons/stepsons, several daughters-in-law and three grandsons. I don’t need “a date”.

Finally, try not being lazy.

 

[Jeff Corey]

...Jeff Corey:

Either capitalisation would be acceptable. It depends on whether I meant “education” or “Education”...

No, not in the last couple of centuries here. http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/capital.asp

 

[aries]

Interesting thread...

I just want to comment on the whole statistics things, but first let me tell that there's lies, damned lies, and then statistics. (as mr. Churchill said once, I believe?).

Next, I know that in country, Denmark, there have been several studies done on this. They allways turn out the same: Students, who have parents who have a higher education (e.g. college or higher education), will get higher grades than students who don't have parents with college degrees. Interestingly, enough, if you 'clear' the data
for the parents socio-economic status (basically the higher degrees+their higher incomes)
it shows that some students who have high status parents don't get as high grades in school as you would expect. One explanation for this could be that it really are the students whose parents take an interest in their education that do well in school --- and many people with high incomes have no interest in their children's education at all.

The thing with the splendourous new football stadium other things are this: A brand new football can be shown off to potential investors etc. etc. and can be used as a PR tool for the school. A bunsenburner or textbooks can't do that, me thinks - even if bunsenburners and textbooks will be better for the education as a whole...

 

[Kestrel]

The thing with the splendourous new football stadium other things are this: A brand new football can be shown off to potential investors etc. etc. and can be used as a PR tool for the school. A bunsenburner or textbooks can't do that, me thinks - even if bunsenburners and textbooks will be better for the education as a whole...

My favorite trivia question is "name a university that does not have a football team". Few of those asked can name even one.

 

[Jeff Corey]

U Cal Santa Barbara has a soccer team but no American football team.

 

[Dancing David]

bigred:

Dancing David:

Ad hominem arguments do nothing to enhance the reputation of those who use them. My original posting was a criticism of your use of language: if you can write acceptable conventional English please do so. It would enable the rest of us to understand the points you are trying to make.

By the way, I do have a life. It encompasses five sons/stepsons, several daughters-in-law and three grandsons. I don’t need “a date”.

Finally, try not being lazy.

The irony is overwhelming, you are the one who said i was knocking education. You need to learn to read before you speak. If you don't like my posts , ignore them.

While you advise me to not be lazy, maybe you should read before you post. If I want to write as pleases myself then you will just have to get over it. If you quote a poster then what you write after the quote is a criticism of that poster. Judge a person on thier thoughts and not thier grammar. We haven't seen your critical thinking, come to the Science forum or the R&P forum, show you can think as well as do driveby postings.

When you have something meaningful to add to the conversation i will be glad.

 

[Dancing David]

The thing with the splendourous new football stadium other things are this: A brand new football can be shown off to potential investors etc. etc. and can be used as a PR tool for the school. A bunsenburner or textbooks can't do that, me thinks - even if bunsenburners and textbooks will be better for the education as a whole...

there are many impacts that SES has on children's ability to learn and it is a huge force in children's lives. Teachers do also react to the different cultural norms that also go along with SES.

But football teams are a waste of money. Our local alumni group (my alma mater) generates huge amounts of moeny that could do a lot to improve scholarships and other aspects of the university. But nope, it goes to football. It makes other people happy, which is a good thing but in my view it is a huge waste of money.

 

[bigred]

I would bet a very healthy chunk of change that the money generated by football programs for most schools does not entirely go back into football by any means, esp for the larger/more successful ones. Therefore, it is far from a waste of money.

Plus there's the whole football thing.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Definitely not. At most schools - non NCAA -it's a loser, sucking money away from lab equipment, academic scholarships, salaries, etc. See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/sports/ncaafootball/23college.html

 

[Dancing David]

I would bet a very healthy chunk of change that the money generated by football programs for most schools does not entirely go back into football by any means, esp for the larger/more successful ones. Therefore, it is far from a waste of money.

Plus there's the whole football thing.

I am not into it anymore. Seriously the money generated by the Alumni goes mainly to sports. Which is all right. Just something I think is not usefull.

And the state is very good at taking monet from the university, like half of all grants awarded to the staff and faculty at the university. Which does not go back to the university.

 

[Tokenconservative]

Somehow I get rather worried about those people who complain about standards in Education - but can't actually write grammatical English, or English with accurate spelling, themselves. Incidentally, it is usual form for sentences to start with an upper case letter.

Would someone like to go through this post and correct it. I'm not going to, because I want to see the variety of incorrect "corrections".

Not as worried as the rest of us get over pedantic net-nannies like you.

When you are engaging in a verbal discussion with someone do you stop them to correct a mispronounced word or suchlike?

Then YOU may just be a pedantic net-nanny!

Or ninny. I get the two confused.

Tokie

 

[bigred]

Definitely not. At most schools - non NCAA -it's a loser, sucking money away from lab equipment, academic scholarships, salaries, etc. See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/23/sports/ncaafootball/23college.html

From the article:

Football home games are typically the primary source of revenue for an entire athletic department. Other than football, the only college sport that makes consistent money is men’s basketball. The other men’s and women’s sports, except in rare cases, cost more to run than they generate.

 

[Jeff Corey]

That's NCAA schools. Not the majority. That's why I specified NCAA in my previous post.

 

[Checkmite]

NCLB was not a great idea but it has caused schools to pay attention, unfortunately schools boards and legislatures are what they are.

I categorically disagree with your statement. I believe NCLB was a good idea. I believe it has been sabotaged by state and municipal education boards.

In my opinion, the basic premise behind NCLB is that there are a few very, very BASIC, essential skills that children need, before they graduate from school. The implication is that students need to be literate at the very least, and need to be able to do some basic math - adding, subtracting, dividing, and the like. The problem is that NCLB has no teeth - no one in Washington was masculine enough to actually enumerate those standards. Instead, the actual standards were left to the states to set for themselves, individually. Most states responded in bad faith. Some, for instance, responded by setting artificially low standards, so they wouldn't have to make any effort towards improving anything. Some states responded by manipulating results and playing fast-and-loose with facts, figures, numbers, and classifications of students in their yearly reports. Those were the choices they made. They then blamed the results on the federal act, as if they didn't have a choice, after all, but to respond the way they did.

Bollocks. The state of education in this country does indeed suck mightily; however, your local school board, and your state's education board, are perfectly happy to let it stay that way. Mostly out of laziness. This has nothing to do with some "conspiracy" to "dumb down" American kids, and everything to do with people just not caring.