Is this approach helping or hurting drug addicted prostitutes?

[Zelenius]

For a few years now, photographer Chris Arnade and journalist Cassie Rodenberg have been going into the Hunts Point neighborhood of the Bronx to get up close and personal with the drug addicted(crack/heroin, sometimes alcohol) prostitutes who live there. Many have allowed their pictures to be taken, and have told their stories.

Chris Arnade Photostream (Some of these photos are very disturbing).

It seems that most of the time, these women(and some men and transexuals) were physically and/or sexually abused as children. Some were repeatedly raped as children. A lot were raised in foster care or have been living on the streets since their early teens. Very often, their parents were drug or alcohol addicts too, and almost all of them have been in and out of jail or drug rehab for years now.

Much of Arnade's and Rodenberg's work has appeared in Scientific American - Addicts as Parents, Part I: Pregnant, Now What?

Some of the regular readership of SA has voiced their opposition to these articles, believing this doesn't belong in SA because it isn't "scientific" enough. Or that it is "exploitive". A lot of people feel "uncomfortable" when they see pictures of people doing drugs or believe these people are completely "hopeless" and so this is a lost cause.

Regardless, do you believe this series is helping these poor people at all? If not, how can society help them? Has society failed them, or have they failed themselves or is it a mixture of both?

In my opinion, I think this approach does help a tiny bit. Still, I think it is very unrealistic to think that most of these poor women will eventually get clean. Depressing as it may sound, almost all are doomed to live the rest of their lives like this. People who live like this tend to have a significantly shorter life expectancy.

These journalists/activists generally do not preach or judge, but they do try to encourage these women to go to rehab. To some degree, they have befriended a few of them. In the very least, I think it helps to see these prostitutes as flawed human beings rather than the "scum" of society, which is how many people see them.

 

[Aepervius]

The approach might help if this is the correct venue. Is SA the correct venue and the targeted demographic ? I am not so sure of that.

 

[rjh01]

It starts a discussion about the issue. It may help make changes to society for the better. That is part of every magazines' role.

 

[DragonLady]

It bothers me in a vague way. I almost think it perpetuates the idea that suffering = art, and that somehow removes it from reality.

OTOH, I do believe more needs to be done to prevent these things from happening, and any venue that brings attention to the causes and opens dialogue about the reasons people make such harmful choices is probably a good thing.

 

[Zelenius]

It bothers me in a vague way. I almost think it perpetuates the idea that suffering = art, and that somehow removes it from reality.

OTOH, I do believe more needs to be done to prevent these things from happening, and any venue that brings attention to the causes and opens dialogue about the reasons people make such harmful choices is probably a good thing.

It bothered me a little too at first, for similar reasons. It does seem like "poverty porn" in a way. I even used to do what Chris Arnade does, since Hunts Point isn't too far away from me. I did it very briefly and didn't get too involved though, and never went inside any drug dens. I'm so glad Arnade(who I do not know and have never met) went in there shortly after I left and did what I wish I could have done and so much more.

Since I am something of a health-nut, I felt so utterly repulsed by the lifestyles of these people, so I didn't have the stomach to continue. And they kept thinking I was a john or working with the police. Besides this I had to care for some sick relatives.

I admit that I am one of those people who has a rather strange fascination with people in extremely ugly, degrading situations. In part, this may be due to being very remote from this kind of thing. No one in my immediate family is a drug addict. I never use any drugs; caffeine is a "hard drug" to me.

Above all, I do wish I could do more to help these people. Nothing thrills me more than to hear about one of these addicted prostitutes getting clean for good. I offer food or other help whenever possible, but never money, for obvious reasons.

And we definitely do need to have more honest discussions of this subject. These are people with diseases, not sub-humanoids that should be treated like vermin.

 

[Brainster]

Are they telling the (literal) truth? Self-reporting of abuse as a child is almost certainly much higher among drug addicts and prostitutes. Is it really that much higher, or are they conning the researchers?

This is a big problem that at least currently can't be easily resolved.

 

[Zelenius]

Are they telling the (literal) truth? Self-reporting of abuse as a child is almost certainly much higher among drug addicts and prostitutes. Is it really that much higher, or are they conning the researchers?

This is a big problem that at least currently can't be easily resolved.

While it is very likely that some of them are lying or exaggerating, I believe in the majority of cases they are telling the truth. I don't believe the journalists behind this project do anything to verify the stories of abuse they are told, and there isn't any way to verify them.

But even if some of them are lying, they are still very desperate, troubled individuals(unless they are making up everything, including being an addict, just for money and/or attention). Even if they weren't abused as children, many of them have been raped or assaulted since working the streets by johns, pimps, drug dealers, the cops, or people they try to steal from. It's obvious that many of them are thieves and they often admit this.

To make matters worse, drug addiction is very often co-morbid with mental problems like bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia, especially among the homeless population. Worse yet, they either have no family or what little family they have hates them or has given up on them. A few of these Hunts Point prostitutes even seem to be 2nd or 3rd generation drug addicted prostitutes; a lot of them have children(often in foster care or getting raised by relatives), and it's scary thinking what will become of their daughters - 4th, 5th generation homeless, drug addicted prostitutes?

 

[Dancing David]

It seems that most of the time, these women(and some men and transexuals) were physically and/or sexually abused as children. Some were repeatedly raped as children. A lot were raised in foster care or have been living on the streets since their early teens.

Most runaways (who actually stay away) run away because they an abusive home. Many in our society are more concerned that they learn about intelligent design and not having gay scouts then actually caring about sheltering abused teens.

Midnight basketball and other safe shelters help teen become stable adults, but tax breaks for the wealthy and by the wealthy matter more than young adults in abusive homes.

In Illinois 15 years ago it was pretty much assumed after 14 yo you were on your own, the state was not going to do anything for you. So if you are a 14 yo with a sexually abusive parent then you can live on the street or be sexually assaulted.

No churches help them, no shelters will take them.

 

[coalesce]

"Pretty Woman" this ain't.

Life is all about choices. I remember when the book "The Celestine Prophesies" came out about 20 years ago and one of the passages in the book talked about how before you're born, and you're just this ethereal life force in the Universe, that you choose your parents. And I thought, "Hang on. You mean, there are some life forces that CHOOSE to be born as a starving, abused child? Really?" Well, leaving that fiction aside, you look at some of these pictures and you may think, "What led you down this path? Is this what you really wanted with your life?" Then you read some of the stories and realize, a lot of these people HAD little or no choice.

I wish I had an answer.

Michael

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

No churches help them, no shelters will take them.

Evidence? I find this difficult to believe. I'm sure that SOME shelters will not take them, and that SOME churches will not help them. But NONE of either?

 

[Zelenius]

"Pretty Woman" this ain't.

Life is all about choices. I remember when the book "The Celestine Prophesies" came out about 20 years ago and one of the passages in the book talked about how before you're born, and you're just this ethereal life force in the Universe, that you choose your parents. And I thought, "Hang on. You mean, there are some life forces that CHOOSE to be born as a starving, abused child? Really?" Well, leaving that fiction aside, you look at some of these pictures and you may think, "What led you down this path? Is this what you really wanted with your life?" Then you read some of the stories and realize, a lot of these people HAD little or no choice.

I wish I had an answer.

Michael

While it seems the overwhelming majority of the prostitutes in Hunts Point were runaways from poor, abusive homes or foster homes, there are exceptions. Some of them claim they grew up with their biological parents in non-abusive middle class homes in the suburbs of New York City or in New England. They got involved with drugs in their teens and you know the rest.

On a related note, it is interesting how the ones who were adopted by affluent parents at a very young age who had drug addicted biological parents they never knew, eventually become addicts themselves by adulthood. We already know there is a biological component to addiction, but this is disturbing. We like to think our destiny isn't written in our genes, but in some cases this is exactly what happens.

 

[Zelenius]

Most runaways (who actually stay away) run away because they an abusive home. Many in our society are more concerned that they learn about intelligent design and not having gay scouts then actually caring about sheltering abused teens.

Midnight basketball and other safe shelters help teen become stable adults, but tax breaks for the wealthy and by the wealthy matter more than young adults in abusive homes.

I agree that some of us may need to rethink their priorities when it comes to taxation and other issues. And all-too-often "traditional family values" is just a smokescreen for extreme homophobia.

Sadly, some parents can even be homophobic to the point that they hate their own homosexual children. One of the more heart-breaking stories in the Hunts Point prostitution series is that of a gay male prostitute who had to run away from home at 14 or 15 because his parents couldn't accept that he was gay. He's been living in Hunts Point now for over 20 years, addicted to heroin and crack, and infected with hepatitis.

Apparently, his mother, who he very rarely sees, believes her gay son should "repent", and sees her son's homosexuality, drug addiction, and prostitution as one and the same. He claims he was sexually assaulted in his early teens by a neighbor, but when he told his parents they blamed him because he's gay.

 

[coalesce]

On a related note, it is interesting how the ones who were adopted by affluent parents at a very young age who had drug addicted biological parents they never knew, eventually become addicts themselves by adulthood. We already know there is a biological component to addiction, but this is disturbing. We like to think our destiny isn't written in our genes, but in some cases this is exactly what happens.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why I choose not to drink alcohol or do drugs. My father died a recovering alcoholic and I'm too afraid that what was in him that made him unable all those years to put down the bottle is in me. I'm not saying that I'm one drink or toke away from skid row, but I'd rather not find out. It's like the comedian Dana Gould said when explaining why he and his wife decided to adopt as opposed to have their own children. He said looking at the Gould family tree, all he sees are alcoholics and the guy who talks to his truck, and concluded that genetically, his balls are full of poison.

Michael

 

[Zelenius]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why I choose not to drink alcohol or do drugs. My father died a recovering alcoholic and I'm too afraid that what was in him that made him unable all those years to put down the bottle is in me. I'm not saying that I'm one drink or toke away from skid row, but I'd rather not find out. It's like the comedian Dana Gould said when explaining why he and his wife decided to adopt as opposed to have their own children. He said looking at the Gould family tree, all he sees are alcoholics and the guy who talks to his truck, and concluded that genetically, his balls are full of poison.

Michael

I'm happy to hear you've never used drugs or alcohol and avoided falling into the trap.

I've never tried any drugs besides alcohol(which I never drink anymore), but not for the same reason you have abstained, at least that's not the most important reason. I never used them because I hate the idea of losing control, though there also is that risk of getting addicted.

Neither of my parents and none of my grandparents were addicted to anything, but my long lost uncle who I never met had serious drug problems. He was the uncle we were never supposed to talk about, even though there are so many pictures of him in the family photo albums. I remember as a little kid asking my mom who that mysterious young man was. In many photos he is sitting or standing right next to her or her other brothers(who I know well). It was her long lost older brother, but she always refused to talk about him except a few times to tell me he had problems with drugs, and had turned to crime and disappeared, and told me to never mention him to grandma.

My uncles mentioned him a few times too, often accompanied with advice to never try drugs, look at what happened to uncle Freddie. Otherwise we were never allowed to discuss him. He died many many years ago(when I was still a kid) a homeless, hopeless druggie, and had no contact with his brothers or anyone in the family at all. I believe my uncles found out he died many years after he passed. I think they just gave up on him.

 

[Manopolus]

For a few years now, photographer Chris Arnade and journalist Cassie Rodenberg have been going into the Hunts Point neighborhood of the Bronx to get up close and personal with the drug addicted(crack/heroin, sometimes alcohol) prostitutes who live there. Many have allowed their pictures to be taken, and have told their stories.

Chris Arnade Photostream (Some of these photos are very disturbing).

It seems that most of the time, these women(and some men and transexuals) were physically and/or sexually abused as children. Some were repeatedly raped as children. A lot were raised in foster care or have been living on the streets since their early teens. Very often, their parents were drug or alcohol addicts too, and almost all of them have been in and out of jail or drug rehab for years now.

Much of Arnade's and Rodenberg's work has appeared in Scientific American - Addicts as Parents, Part I: Pregnant, Now What?

Some of the regular readership of SA has voiced their opposition to these articles, believing this doesn't belong in SA because it isn't "scientific" enough. Or that it is "exploitive". A lot of people feel "uncomfortable" when they see pictures of people doing drugs or believe these people are completely "hopeless" and so this is a lost cause.

Regardless, do you believe this series is helping these poor people at all? If not, how can society help them? Has society failed them, or have they failed themselves or is it a mixture of both?

In my opinion, I think this approach does help a tiny bit. Still, I think it is very unrealistic to think that most of these poor women will eventually get clean. Depressing as it may sound, almost all are doomed to live the rest of their lives like this. People who live like this tend to have a significantly shorter life expectancy.

These journalists/activists generally do not preach or judge, but they do try to encourage these women to go to rehab. To some degree, they have befriended a few of them. In the very least, I think it helps to see these prostitutes as flawed human beings rather than the "scum" of society, which is how many people see them.

Here's the thing. I doubt they would be comfortable living your life either... or mine (for different reasons). I more than suspect that they would be horribly bored with the life that "proper" folks would have them live.

Whether we like it or not, what we actually want out of life and what we think we want out of life are almost always two completely different things, and it shows when we start going about trying to "fix" people. Ultimately, we are most comfortable with that which we are most familiar with, no matter how much we like to whine about it. Each person's journey is theirs alone, despite our willingness to judge on what that life must be like (and we're likely wrong, at that... even when taking cues from the source).

(ETA) I also didn't find anything particularly disturbing in the photos. Perhaps I'm numb or lack context, or perhaps you're just sheltered, I dunno. Do you find ugly people in general to be disturbing?

 

[Zelenius]

(ETA) I also didn't find anything particularly disturbing in the photos. Perhaps I'm numb or lack context, or perhaps you're just sheltered, I dunno. Do you find ugly people in general to be disturbing?

Some people find photos of people shooting heroin or smoking crack to be disturbing, so I thought I would warn them. I know I don't, I'm used to it. And some of the people in the photos look disheveled, but not ugly per se. Trust me, I'm much uglier than most of them.

 

[Ladewig]

In my opinion, I think this approach does help a tiny bit. Still, I think it is very unrealistic to think that most of these poor women will eventually get clean. Depressing as it may sound, almost all are doomed to live the rest of their lives like this.

Statistically, you are right in that very few will escape the cycle. While I am generally not an optimistic person, I do believe that there exists some way to help more of them, but as of today, we lack the knowledge, resources, and fortitude to find and implement such a method. In my mind, I hope that the recovery rate will one day reach as high as 10-16%.